Darryl,
With all due respect, As you know I am new at this and I tend to
hear the same sort of things from friends about meteorite
collecting. But as a life long art and antique dealer i see it a
little different. Yes, meteorites have the curb appeal and all of
the hype but the main thing that should be driving the value is
rarity. Yes, a fireball is a rarity but not really ( maybe?) . Lets
face it we have all seen incredible fireballs. I think , since
recent studies have shown that most material that passes though our
atmosphere does not show crust and therefore is missed so, we miss a
lot of rare material. Now if we ever discover an unusual material
that fell that would be something and rare. The way I see our
scientists study habits is primarily pigeonholing the material. If
it ain't covered with the black stuff they just toss it aside. Even
though they know damn well about the recent studies which had real
rocks attached to the cone of a rocket's re-entry and it's results.
They also know much more about the types of rocks and their
layering textures on other planets and yet still not one find with
layering. Darryl, to me that is what is wrong with this hobby. No
direction. There should be way more scientists willing to look at
more than just the obvious and not assume it to be earthen because
it has layers or no fusion crust.
But back to the point . Rarity is what creates value and falls like
Carancas truly are rare events. It not only crated a crater but it
did it with a very friable material and it's cosmochemestry is being
described as inexplicable. Having said that. I have yet to read one
single scientific paper on the subject. These so called scientists
in this field totally dropped the ball on this extraordinary
information. And so the value plummets on material that truly is
rare and desireable as such.
Thanks again Carl
Carl Esparza
meteoritemax
IMCA 5829
--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
To: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Meteorite-list" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 8:38 AM
Folks,
If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a
collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are
too many
aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the
norm.
Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites
have shared
with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief
in an
"immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words.
In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated
with the
Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers
being bandied
about.
Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell
for a couple
of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't
occur.
All best / d
=====================
On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote:
> Hello Jeff, All,
>
> The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because
> it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking
> price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is
going
> for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall,
> the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity
> (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach,
> Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.).
>
> And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a
spectacular
> urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price
> for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can
find.
> A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The
> price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of
> great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high.
>
> All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg
> Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of
> stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American
dealer)
> to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see
ebay
> - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay,
and
> there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that),
> not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you
look at
> what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell.
>
> The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of
> Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago),
was
> listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers,
fresh
> fall, etc.
>
> The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially
> arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only
> wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or
> they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only
thing
> keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some
> point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price
would be
> too high for anyone to buy.
> A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as
> high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material.
>
> Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the
> dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to
> not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think
> they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have
jobs
> and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on
such
> trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities.
>
> But let's have some fun.
>
> Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a
> pound of space, between the two of them.
> And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate:
> Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~
$130,
> and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a
> car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each.
> $2,000 combined cost.
>
> If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g
> would give them $500.
> If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500.
>
> That's a profit of $23,000.
>
> And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented
> Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of
> 500g.
>
> ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the
trip?
> I would assume so.
> A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000.
> Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun.
>
> I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free
(dates
> available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can
> arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that
trip
> to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was
>> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now
will
be
>> different to the material found weeks, months and years down the
track. I
>> didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala"
(Oum Dreyga). I
>> purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first
batch
of
>> about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I
paid
>> about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum
Dreyga
>> specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the
first
15g
>> which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other
recent
>> fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls
that come
>> immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park
Forest and
>> Moss.
>>
>> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering
what the
>> other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also
speculate all you
>> like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price
of a
fall.
>> And I don't think you can really compare one with another.
Comparing this
>> Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all.
They are
>> two totally different falls with two totally different stories.
>>
>> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a
meteorite (or
>> anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is
willing
>> to pay.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[email protected]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
>>
>>
>>> Greg and All,
>>>
>>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if
there
>>> is a
>>> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year.
>>>
>>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all
or most
>>> of
>>> the ones already found.
>>>
>>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them,
everyone
>>> up
>>> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that
is the
>>> same
>>> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians.
>>>
>>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money
may not
>>> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even
care
>>> about a
>>> tax break or cash values at all.
>>>
>>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could
see the
>>> value
>>> be higher than $10/g.
>>>
>>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then
we could
>>> see
>>> the prices end up way below $10/g.
>>>
>>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to
pass to
>>> see
>>> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government.
>>>
>>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted
Canadian
>>> only
>>> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for
$0.10 a
>>> gram or
>>> even less.
>>>
>>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and
McCartney NOW
>>> at
>>> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down
to
>>> under
>>> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your
first
>>> purchase
>>> at $50/g down to a reasonable level.
>>>
>>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at
owning the
>>> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about
around the
>>> water
>>> cooler, then how can you put a value on that???
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and
McCartney
>>> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt
they will
>>> make a
>>> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at
$100/g,
>>> but
>>> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they
will again
>>> be
>>> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more.
>>>
>>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to
the
>>> scene
>>> and making an effort.
>>>
>>> Good job guys, and congratulations!
>>>
>>> Steve Arnold #1
>>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com
>>>
>>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email,
and
>>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
>>>
>>>
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010
)
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
