From: Jeff Grossman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
To: "Meteorite-list" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 8:22 AM
Please don't misunderstand me... I just said there was
reason to be suspicious from a statistical point of view,
and of course there is an obvious financial motive. But I
was not saying that I thought any of the fall stories were
false, since I never even tried to assess them.
So let's see if there is consensus to be found here on
these recent falls. I did a simple reading of the fall
accounts and used google scholar to search for cosmogenic
nuclide or other supporting data. Here are my zeroth order
ratings of each fall story:
Chergach - highly likely
Bassikounou - highly likely
Benguerir - probable
Beni M'hira - probable
Bensour - questionable
Oum Dreyga - questionable
The new one - nothing to evaluate
Maigatari-Danduma - ignore since it isn't really in the
NWA region
Bensour is such a weak story that I'm leaning towards
changing it from a fall to a find in my database, which is
basically what the MetBull article also said. I'm not
even sure how it got listed as a fall. Do any of you take
issue with this?
The Oum Dreyga story also has strange elements. The
witnesses saw it "falling on ... [the] mountains,"
which probably means that if there was a real fall, it was
very distant. The fact that many of the stones were
weathered also raises my doubts. So I rate this as weak.
Anybody want to take the stand on Oum Dreyga's behalf?
Or argue against any of the ones I called probable or highly
likely?
If two are really finds and one is eliminated because it is
really not in this region, then we are left with 4 in the
2000s decade, plus the new one which remains to be seen.
Four is certainly a more palatable number than eight from a
blind statistical point of view, neglecting other
sociological factors.
Jeff
Dr. Svend Buhl wrote:
> Interesting debate. Reminds me on the good old days of
the Acedemie Francaise, the days before Biot and Chladni,
where scientists doubted the accounts of local eyewitnesses
on rocks falling from the skies for sociological reasons.
>
> As far as I am concerned, I still trust the people who
measured e.g. the cosmogenic radionuclides of the meteorites
produced by these recent falls. I absolutely doubt that the
Swiss or French labs who worked on these stones made up
their results just to make them fit the newspaper reports
and eyewitness accounts.
>
> Svend Buhl
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff
Grossman" <[email protected]>
> To: "Meteorite-list"
<[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls -
Question
>
>
>> Martin and list,
>>
>> Actually, there is something suspicious.
Northwest Africa (the countries you listed plus Western
Sahara and Tunisia) has seen between 0 and 3 falls per
decade from the 1900s through the 1980s. The 1990s saw 6,
and the 2000s have now got 8. There is no parallel increase
in the rest of Africa, which in fact has been steadily
declining in fall rates since the 1940s. Europe has also
been declining since the 1930s (in fall rates), as has North
America. I think northwest Africa is the only place in the
world that is seeing any kind of increase in rate, and it
has been dramatic, tripling in the last decade.
>>
>> The are various sociological reasons why this
increase might have happened, which we can argue about. But
there certainly IS something to raise ones eyebrows.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Martin Altmann wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan,
>>> it's because of the iron mountain in
Atlas, which still has to be found and
>>> which attracts with his magnetic field all
iron-bearing lumps from space.
>>>
>>> No. Take a World map, hold little Europe
(forget a little bit about
>>> Scandinavia),
>>> hold it against that NWA region, Algeria,
Mali, Niger, Morocco,
>>> Mauretania....
>>>
>>> And let's count the falls:
>>>
>>> Let's start with Zag 1998.
>>>
>>> NWA-Regions:
>>>
>>> Zag 1998
>>> El Idrissa 1998
>>> Djoumine 1999
>>> Beni M'hira 2001
>>> Bensour 2002
>>> Oum Dreyga 2003
>>> Maigatari-Danduma 2004
>>> Benguerir 2004
>>> Bassikounou 2006
>>> Chergach 2007
>>> And now the new possible fall.
>>>
>>> Europe:
>>>
>>> Ourique 1998
>>> Leighlinbridge 1999
>>> Moravka 2000
>>> San Michele 2002
>>> Neuschwanstein 2002
>>> Alby sur Cheran 2002
>>> Villalbeto 2004
>>> Moss 2006
>>> Puerto Lapice 2007
>>> Romanian Fall 2008
>>>
>>> 11 : 11.
>>>
>>> So nothing suspicious.
>>>
>>> USA had 7
>>> India 10
>>>
>>> Best!
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok Folks,
>>>
>>> I am curious to know why there are so many
witnessed (recovered) meteorite
>>> falls in Northwest Africa as opposed to
anywhere else in the world. Is there
>>> a good logical and/or scientifc explanation
for this?.. or just a
>>> coincidence? I understand that some
"falls" simply turn out to be a case of
>>> Nomadic lies in an attempt to liquidate
(recycle) old material, but what
>>> about the others? Perhpas it has something to
do with it's geographical
>>> location in relation to..?
>>> And yes, I do understand these people spend
countless hours outdoors, in the
>>> desert, ect. but..
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts?
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703)
648-6184
>> US Geological Survey fax: (703)
648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> [email protected]
>>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [email protected]
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
-- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA
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