you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
> 1794
>
> Erik,
> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
> in - doing that is wrong.
> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
> believes in.'
> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
> Jason
>
> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>
>>
>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>
>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>
>> [Erik]
>>
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>
>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>
>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>
>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>> time's the charm, right?
>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>> that function.
>>>
>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>> actually find.
>>>
>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>
>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you
>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting
>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do
>>>> a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>> From: [email protected]
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>> change that.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam
>>>>> War.
>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's
>>>>>> actions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not,
>>>>>>>> sSteve
>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have
>>>>>>>> managed the
>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless
>>>>>>>> you've
>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all
>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with
>>>>>>>> Internet
>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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