I've always wondered why more scientists involved with meteorite study don't deal with private collectors more. My belief is that it's probably more of a personal thing and not nessicarily a tradition one.

But the proof is in the pudding as the saying goes! Just look through the Met. Bull. from the last decade or two. Time after time you will find the scientists who are doing the majority of the work AND also the most important study are the ones who deal with collectors and dealers on a regular basis.

Cheers,

Jeff

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fujihara" <[email protected]>
To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and "cool" scientists thinking


... and may I add that not only are scientists these days sporting "ponytails, dreadlocks and tattoos" (and I know several), but more are of the female persuasion. Girl Power dude.

On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:

Hi Steve and List,

Great post and unfortunately very true.

Something I have noticed in the last couple of years - more and more
scientists have ponytails, dreadlocks, and tattoos.  When I watch
science documentaries on TV now, you often see a young scientist with
a goatee and dreadlocks.  It's funny and encouraging at the same time.
Times are a changin and people are becoming more open minded and
tolerant.

When I grew up in the early 70's, all scientists on TV had buzz-cuts
and looked like cops.  So, perhaps this archaic anti-collecting
attitude we go the same way as the dinosaurs.  Just give it time.

Seriously, next time you watch a science documentary (especially the
ones about astronomy), take a look at the scientists they interview -
you see a few "old school" types, but you also see the next young crop
of up and coming scientists, and if looks are any gauge, then I feel
hopeful that these exclusionary attitudes and snobbish views will
disappear along with the buzz cuts and pocket protectors. ;)

Best regards and happy hunting,

MikeG

PS - isn't the Smith publicly subsidized by tax payer money?  If so,
what right do they have to deny access to the specimens?



On 1/29/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey List,

It was my understanding that a local news station was called to the Lorton doctor's office, and then that TV news crew actually drove the meteorite to the Smithsonian for verification. At that time, it became obvious that
it
was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by  the museum personnel were
started to acquire this specimen for the  museum.

In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after the story broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian personnel were there at the fall site, which I thought was great. You can't blame
them for wanting to obtain the rock.  In fact, there would be  something
wrong
if they didn't want to acquire it.

I will say that our  Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to
gain permission from the Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National
Collection with a camera crew  and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien
visitor
to appear in one of our upcoming February episodes. If the Lorton story
would have played out big  enough, it could have become its own episode,
most
likely running at the end of  February or in March of this year.

We were willing to pay  the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian
normally charges, but we were  flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton
specimen for
our TV show. I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections.

We also wanted to film  the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the
centerpiece in the National  Collection's public display, for this next
Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men, but we were flatly denied access a
few months
ago to shoot that as well. The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes into the historical story of the Tucson Ring and of course, as the center piece to our National Collection now on display in Washington D.C., it's
final resting place is an important part of the  story of the greatest
legend in
all of meteorites.

However, I was told that the "powers that be" at the Smithsonian did offer
to sell us a black  and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on
the show. Nice of them, wasn't it? So, I don't think the problems we had this last week were related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to
be
a bigger bureaucratic  problem elsewhere.

Apparently, other networks have had severe access  challenges lately in
wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian
cable
network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and
for
meteorites in general.

Well, maybe one day, a few years down the road, we can look forward to the Smithsonian Cable TV Network running their own TV show about meteorites in
general and maybe the Lorton  specifically and we will all get to see it
again.

It is not my intention  to paint the meteorite professionals at the
National Collection in a bad  light.  In fact, I would invite them to
respond here
to give their side of the story. I have traded with the Smithsonian in the past and I even sold the Smithsonian some West specimens this last year. While the process was complicated and took a very long time, the people I worked with were great, and I consider them friends and colleagues in our
celestial quest.  I get the  feeling that the challenges we face are in
other
departments other than  theirs.

I do know there is still some prejudice against the collecting community among some in governmental employed academia. There are those that still think all meteorites should be owned by governments and that there should
be
no private hunting for, collecting and owning of meteorites. There seems to be a few dinosaurs holding onto the idea that if someone earns a buck, or God forbid -- a living, in the meteorite business, it is a bad thing.
(Ironically, I am still looking for the list  of scientists and curators
that
donate 100% of their paychecks each week back to  the institutions that
employ them, because they really believe it is wrong for anyone to earn any money from working with meteorites.) And what is really ironic, is that people like Dr. Art Ehlmann at T.C.U., who really does all his meteorite
work
gratis, is on the top of the list of people who do their meteorite work for no pay AND he is also on the top of the list of scientists that support our
collecting communities efforts.

It is possible that there is an underlying fear that being associated with
a TV show that features non-governmental collecting of meteorites could
somehow cast them in a negative light, especially among a handful of archaic

thinking colleagues that might scorn them at the Meteoritical Society
meetings. Remember in junior high school, when a cool kid would talk with
a
non-cool kid, and all the other cool kids would shun their ill-acting
member?
Yea, I kind of think that "we are better than they are" thinking  might
still happen at some level amongst the "cool" scientists in the field.

I am not sure who all still feels that way in the research community (maybe
someone can make a list of them online?) as I have noticed a much more
enlightened view from more and more scientists as the years pass.
Hopefully
that haughty bias will eventually dissolve away as people realize the
positive contributions the private collector community makes to the science
and
that we are all in this great and healthy symbiotic relationship together.

Steve Arnold
of Meteorite Men

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Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
(808) 640-9161





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