> Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in > any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the > meteorite market.
I completely agree with this sentiment. How is it that a guide (with appropriate caveats included) cannot be of benefit to the collector/buyer? If only to reveal the relative differences in valuation between different meteorites. Conceptually, I love the word "guide" and all that it implies, and I think it's a laudable exercise. On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:32 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Richard > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate my points again, but we > have survived in this hobby for several decades since the first large dealers > began without a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place for > a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? There have been > several attempts before Kevin, with no success. Again the collecting market > can determine the need for a guide. > > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use auctions ad doesn't > know what the dealers SOLD items for. To me a guide like that is not useful. > REALIZED prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from dealers. > > > Matt > ------------------------ > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Kowalski <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:20:02 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides > > Sorry for making another subject change on this Kevin & Matt. > > I have to argue directly against you one this one Matt. > > Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in > any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the > meteorite market. > > While I do not have Kevin's price guide, I certainly think it is something > useful. Auction results are a very important tool too. > > Nearly everyone on this list who spoke up not too long ago when asked about > interests other than meteorites said they collect some thing or other. Many > of these collectors collected coins and notes, numisma. Since this is the > first collecting bug tat bit me too, I'll discuss this market in those terms. > > Coins, tokens, notes, etc is a huge market, but value is assigned by the > numerous points already raised and more, but are always dictated by supply > and demand. Many relatively common coins are very valuable because so many > collectors desire them while vast areas of numismatics, which are rather > esoteric, may only have a few hundred of even just one or a few collectors > worldwide. That is a type of market the we find ourselves in. > > I've had a number of you with customer lists privately estimate for me the > worldwide number of active meteorite collectors and the consensus seems to be > well under 1000. Many estimate the number to be around 500. Double or maybe > triple that and you have the total number of active and sporadic collectors. > Adam Hupe often points out how rare meteorites are and that is very true. The > flip side of that is the meteorite collector base is minuscule. Just in those > small areas of numismatics many insanely rare, beautiful and interesting > items go for pennies. > > The money collector community and market is literally thousands of years old > and has a huge worldwide collector base. There are price guides to be found > that include highly esoteric topics with no concern about new collectors > being confused by retail versus wholesale. The pricing methodology is > outlined and the collector is urged to learn as much as they can about the > material and pricing. Same as meteorites no? > > When I started seriously collecting meteorites a few years ago, I already had > some information about meteorites and vast experience as a collector, so the > first order of things for me was 1, determine which direction I wanted my > collecting to go. 2, determine which dealers were trustworthy and 3, how much > do I pay? 1 & 2 were easy but #3 was more difficult. I wish I knew of Kevin's > guide back then. It would have saved me some time and effort. > > For me I'd like to see a few more guides, not less. I bet Michael could turn > a very nice profit if he sold PDF books of all the auction lots and prices > realized from this year and at all of his previous auctions too. I know I'd > buy a copy. > > Cheers > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Full Moon Photography > IMCA #1081 > > > --- On Thu, 2/24/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Auction #1 >> To: "Kevin Kichinka" <[email protected]>, >> [email protected], >> [email protected] >> Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 8:01 PM >> Hi Kevin and list: >> Kevin, while I appreciate what you are doing and applaud >> you for putting together a detailed and extensive list, I >> will just say that I think any price guides in any field are >> problematic. All collectibles are worth only what one >> is willing to pay. Coinage may be a different >> situation since there is underlying value in the metal >> commodity and there are fairly accurate mintage numbers. >> >> A good example are home values. An owner can ask 500k >> for their home but only realize 300k in today's >> "market". Zillow.com is a great example of how a >> "price guide" should work; they show the recently sold price >> not asking prices (as you do in your guide). If one >> were to use asking prices the housing market would be >> artificially higher than what is realized in the market. >> >> I also think that price guides give collectors a false >> sense of hope when it comes to selling their >> collections. For example, a dealer should be paying >> them $10/g for Estherville (according to a price from your >> list) when in fact I wouldn't pay more than $6/g, which is >> perceived as "ripping" the collector off. This creates a >> feeling of animosity for the collector and may result in >> them not collecting any longer. >> >> With meteorites or any other collectible for that matter, a >> dealer (or any person with the item) can ask whatever he or >> she wishes to ask. The consumer is best served by >> doing their own market analysis. As you pointed out there >> are dozens of different reasons for assigning a value to a >> meteorite, many of which are subjective (appearance, >> freshness, orientation, etc.). Even the TKW is misleading if >> one uses the MetBull as the standard for that. Who >> says that Allende is "worth" 10/g? The consumer does. Not >> Kevin, not Matt, not Cap"n Blood. >> >> So while price guides may seem like a good idea and may be >> perceived as educational, I think they offer little to no >> value in the collectible marketplace. I could go on, >> but my fingers are tired from the Blackberry keyboard! >> >> Matt >> >> ------------------------ >> Matt Morgan >> Mile High Meteorites >> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >> P.O. Box 151293 >> Lakewood, CO 80215 > > > > > ______________________________________________ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list [email protected] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
