Richard, James, very cool ... and especially being a witness of history
in the making for you guys ...
Does anyone know if these tiles show any signs of fusion (Is there
evidence of a fusion crust in this material or is is so structurally
pure and aerodynamically designed that a tile in proper service never
reaches a temperature for that to occur) as they wear out, or how
exactly material disappears as they wear out in old age (vs. a defect)?
Best wishes
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: James Beauchamp <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; 'Michael Gilmer' <[email protected]>;
'MexicoDoug' <[email protected]>; John.L.Cabassi <[email protected]>;
Richard Montgomery <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Jun 27, 2011 12:00 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tile Glows
Yes, I remember the demonstration repeated many times on broadcast TV
prior to the first launch. About ten seconds after it was orange, he
reached over and picked it up.
--- On Sun, 6/26/11, Richard Montgomery <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Richard Montgomery <[email protected]>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tile Glows
To: [email protected], "'Michael Gilmer'" <[email protected]>,
"'MexicoDoug'" <[email protected]>, "John.L.Cabassi" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, June 26, 2011, 10:50 PM
Long before the first Shuttle mission, I recall being somewhere at a
party
where some fella pulled out of his back-pack what he called a
Heat-Tile...and proceeded to give a demonstration: he literally held
the
tile in his hand and fired it with an acetylene torch. The torch-side
glowed red-hot and he still held it in his hand.
Then the Space Shuttle.
Back then (1978-maybe80???)
I mention this because I witnessed it in private hands before anyone
"publically" knew of the technology....shedding some light upon 'widely
gurded secrets.'
Back then I was into frisbee freestyle and remembering my undergraduate
degree was sort of important....wasn't taking many notes.
Pondering "before-factors" and more,
Richard Montgomery
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "'Michael Gilmer'" <[email protected]>; "'MexicoDoug'"
<[email protected]>; "John.L.Cabassi" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
Blaine Reed had an actual shuttle tile in his room at the Gem show. I
don't recall the price.
This was a real actual tile with numbers on it indicating where it
went on
the shuttle not just the material used to make real tiles as
indicated on
this web site.
Blaine's was significantly more expensive because it was real but, I
don't
think it was flown in space.
I was able to hold it. It weighs almost nothing. It feels like you
are
holding chalk, NOT ceramic tile.
Carl
Meteoritemax
.
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote".
---- "John.L.Cabassi" <[email protected]> wrote:
http://www.thespaceshop.com/shuttilin.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Michael Gilmer
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:20 AM
To: MexicoDoug
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
Hi Doug and List,
Doug - it is great to see you posting again. I have missed your
insights. :)
They are selling heat tiles from the shuttles at KSC? I didn't know
that, and I want one!
I've been meaning to acquire some more space-related items - aerogel,
heat shield tiles, etc.
Do they have a website where I can order the tiles, or do I need to
visit the gift shop in person?
Best regards,
MikeG
PS - is there somewhere online to buy the Russian tiles also?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
EOM -
http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
On 6/25/11, MexicoDoug <[email protected]> wrote:
> JG wrote to MG:
> "What law are you talking about?"
>
> Ditto! A fact-supported discussion would be so much nicer.
>
> It is my understanding that when Apollo lost its funding, oodles of
> relics entered the private domain and there wasn't much ado about
it -
> rather, a tacit acceptance and a party atmosphere pervaded in the
wake
> of Moonphoria and non had any scientific value at the time. Where
are
> the retroactive vigorous sting operations hunting down these
national
> treasures? I am sure the same "laws", whatever they might be, cover
> them.
>
> Post-facto contrived rules are a violation which seems to date to
the
> Magna Carta and any remotely civilized society. All material
loaned or
> provided in exchange for analyses to be done which is covered by
> modern agreements (as Jeff alludes to) has a clear paper trail, but
> there are the nonsensical cases like tape on the Hasselblad
magazines
> demonstrate how ludicrous things can become for reasons foreign to
> science and domestic to collectors willingness to pay. I take my
place
> behind the line of those who have already pointed this out.
>
> Moon specimens that were incidental and innocuous gifts of
> questionable or no value at the time seem to have taken a special
> place. But, there are other exceptions as well. As I peruse the
aisles
> of the gift shop at KSC I am tempted to buy a Space Shuttle heat
tile.
> Yet NASA has allegedly gone on record saying that it will not
dispose
> of them by sale to the public (reason: we could be liable for
> unintended harm they might cause). Rumor has it that the Soviet
Buran
> tiles are more interesting to collect and Russia has no such hang
ups
> over them, so I'll hold out for one of them. If I had an American
one
> it would not be satisfying in present company. I couldn't freely
share
> it with my international friends without risking being thrown in
jail
> for providing sensitive military secrets to other nations... at
least
> that is the rumor on how it was for a long time ...
>
> There is a clear demonstration of double standard and a
willingness to
> invent retroactive laws, which should be prohibited
constitutionally,
> but the American system separates the judicial and that makes
> legislation from the bench a convenient option in cases like this.
How
> frustrating for Mr. Rosen, the guy who bought the gifted moon rock
> from a Honduran official for a large sum of money. The government
> simply snatched it from him and it was not because the Hondurans
filed
> a claim. If he had been compensated for his recovery of the
specimen
> it would be different in my view. But the way it went down, there
is
> reason to be wary of the court's freeloading and arbitrary mindset
in
> these cases. It is quite removed from science and boils down to
> politics and setting cruel and unusual precedents at the expense of
> citizens for prior shoddy control practices. Mr. Rosen, the owner
at
> the time of the Moon rock was never charged with any criminal
activity
> - they just took the rock plaque and left him to brood. If they
could
> have charged him I sort of think they would have given the zest to
> make examples out of people. But they got what they wanted - a
> precedent of no-ownership when before there was none to my
knowledge.
>
> I would point out that this nonsensical legal gymnastic that seems
to
> have developed ought to be applied to each and every scientist in
the
> United States that is on any payroll or grant for a project who
> supposedly buys specimens in his free time. How different is such
> piggybacking from the microgram residues on a piece of tape out of
a
> camera? How did Dr. King amass that huge personal collection on
many
> field trips to places such as, aw, forget it. Not worth going
into, it
> would be more counterproductive than good to go there.
>
> Best wishes
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Grossman <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 8:34 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
>
>
> What law are you talking about?
>
> On 6/25/2011 7:55 PM, Michael Gilmer wrote:
>> Hi Jeff and List,
>>
>> What strikes me here is that NASA has 842 pounds of lunar material
> and
>> they are apparently bent out shape over a few milligrams of dust
>> clinging to a piece of scotch tape. It's absolutely silly and it
>> speaks of skewed priorities.
>>
>> It was mentioned to me in private email by a respected list member
>> that the NASA samples in question were not addressed by the law
until
>> 1972. If that is true, then it seems to me that any sample removed
>> legally prior to that date would be "grand-fathered in" as legal.
>>
>> A relevant example would be trinitite. Trinitite removed before
the
>> law specifically addressed it is legal. However, going to the site
>> now and removing trinitite is illegal. Another example would be
>> Canyon Diablo iron meteorites - those CD meteorites removed before
> the
>> "prohibition" are legal. Those removed today are illegal because
one
>> must trespass to get them. The devil is in the details - how does
one
>> distinguish a legal Diablo meteorite from an illegal one? And how
>> would one determine a legal piece of dusty tape from an illegal
one?
>>
>> ATTENTION GOVERNMENT - STOP PISSING AWAY OUR TAX MONEY CHASING
AFTER
>> DUSTY TAPE! Instead, here are some suggestions for using our tax
>> money - build homes for the homeless, feed the hungry, offer
medical
>> care to the sick, create jobs for the unemployed, fund the
sciences,
>> or any number of things that are more important than dusty tape.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>
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