Hi Matthias!
Do you think your Tatahouine was mined on Vesta by the Oumpa Lumpas!
Unfortunately all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put
Tatahouine together again, so we'll never know with 100.000...000%
certainty if 99% of them all ever had any fusion crust.... :-( :-)
Won't you be surprised when you find that Vesta actually was mined by
sly Oumpas living under Ries Crater that have a giant slingshot,
perfect sense of masses, orbits and atmospheres of everything and have
been mining Vesta to songs that have been heard for thousands of years
... by hurling projectiles on precisely calculated billiard-like
trajectories at that return samples to Earth. Of course, each time a
space-faring gaggle of geese pass by the returning stones, Vesta stones
being so attractive to their eyes, they pick them right out of the path
and bring them to earth during June and November migrations, and set
them down somewhere in Africa where they pick at them like chicken feed
and love the icing, until they shatter into zillions of pieces. - And
you thought you had Tatahouine figured out now that you have that
beautiful new stone ;-) But maybe you are on to something about why it
is so difficult to know Vesta's "perfect" mass!
Happy Day!
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthias Bärmann <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; [email protected];
MexicoDoug <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DAWN drives up to Vesta
Hi Doug, do you expect from this mission a precise calculation of
Vesta's mass before/after begin of meteorite and namely HED collecting
down here? Any secret mining there? When I've a look on my Green one:
no single little trace of fusion crust and completely fragmented.
That's suspicious :-)
Best,
Matthias
----- Original Message ----- From: "MexicoDoug" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DAWN drives up to Vesta
Hi Mike,
Clearly, orbit was achieved at least by yesterday, at some point
probably > while we were chattering about this. Since they basically
drove up to > Vesta and we don't know the outer limit with super
accuracy there can be > no real time congratulation announcement.
So a few more significant digits will need to be calculated on the
mass of > Vesta and then some engineer will rubber-stamp with hindsight
an "official > time" of capture. But they will need to do a little
more communication > with the spacecraft to determine precisely where
it is to get that super > precise mass, and from that back out when
orbit actually started which > might only be an estimate with the best
data, anyway. So that is why this > is a different moseying up to
Vesta capture that will be successful under > a wide range of mass
assumptions.
I don't know if this is being maintained accurately to reflect the >
maneuver into orbit, here's the link though:
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/orbits/fullview4.jpg
seems to be a simulation noting the relative speed between the probe
and > Vesta as well as the distance. It shows ~50 m/s (104 mph) and
13,100 km > 8,100 miles), and those numbers haven't changed much. That
sounds like a > fast approach already so if the proposed two week
descent is still the > plan and the image data accurate, at this point
we are well past the > capture and have already started the orbital
transition to lower altitude > (the two week decent into the first
scientific orbit).
Unless I'm doing something wrong, a normal satellite at that 13,100
km > distance would have an orbital speed of 82 miles/h (132 km/hr) and
in a > circular orbit no relative speed toward Vesta instead of the 100
mph.
The image numbers were 700 km further out and 3-5 km/h slower 10
hours ago > so it doesn't exactly add up, but it shows the ion engine
is currently > thrusting and still approaching Vesta. Since the
initial target orbit was > 15,000 km and they are around 13,000 km now
from Vesta according to this > you might also imagine that either they
decided to come in more closely, > or Vesta was more massive than
calculated.
Best wishes
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <[email protected]>
To: Sterling K. Webb <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]; MexicoDoug
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 9:34 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DAWN drives up to Vesta
Hi List,
I fell asleep last night before 2:30am. So what is the good word on
Dawn? Do we have orbit?
As has it captured a photo yet of a mile-wide patch of diogenite
exposed through the regolith? ;)
Best regards,
MikeG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
EOM -
http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
On 7/17/11, Sterling K. Webb <[email protected]> wrote:
Doug, List,
I suggest the very detailed "Dawn Journal" postings
by Dr. Marc D. Rayman, Chief Engineer. Of course,
he's busy right now! The last Journal log was June
23, 2011, but the earlier extensive Journals have a
lot of information. They can be found at:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal.asp
On June 1, Dawn was closing at 540 mph. By
June 23, about 250 mph. Currently, it's within
your local speed limit 55-65 mph. Hands on
the wheel and eyes on the road.
"The spacecraft will glide into a very high orbit
in late July and continue thrusting, gently as always,
until early August, when it will arrive in its survey
orbit at an orbit at an altitude of about 2700
kilometers (1700 miles)."
You will note that Dawn is AHEAD of schedule
now, gaining it more time at Vesta. Ion drive is
like a video game -- play it right, you get bonus
points.
"In survey orbit, the probe will be about 2700
kilometers (1700 miles) above the surface. During
the approach phase, navigators will measure the
strength of Vesta's gravitational tug on the spacecraft
so they can compute the giant asteroid's mass with
much greater accuracy than astronomers have yet
been able to determine it. (The mass is calculated
now using observations of how Vesta perturbs the
orbits of other asteroids and even of Mars.) That
knowledge will allow them to refine the survey orbit
altitude, and they may target it to be somewhat higher
or lower, depending on whether Vesta is more massive
or less massive than the current calculations show.
The sequences for acquiring science data are being
designed to accommodate a reasonable range of masses.
Dawn will be in a near-polar orbit. Its trajectory
will take it over the north pole (which will be in
darkness, because it will be northern hemisphere
winter at that time), then over the terminator (the
boundary between the illuminated and unilluminated
sides), down over the equator, over the south pole,
and then across the terminator again to pass over
Vesta's night side. Such an orbit allows the spacecraft
to have a view of virtually every part of the lit surface
at some time. Each revolution in survey orbit will take
2.5 to 3 days to complete. While this may seem like a
leisurely pace, the spacecraft will be busy the entire time.
The primary objective of survey orbit is to get a broad
overview of Vesta with color pictures and with ultraviolet,
visible, and infrared spectra. The camera will obtain views
with 250 meters (820 feet) per pixel, about 150 times
sharper than the best images from the Hubble Space
Telescope. The mapping spectrometer will reveal much
of the surface at better than 700 meters (2300 feet)
per pixel."
Actually finding the Pole (so you can line up for a polar
orbit) has been a problem. North? South? East? West?
Front? Back? Which pole? Vesta's irregularity poses a
limit on "How low can you go?" Interplanetary Limbo
can be hazardous to your spacecraft...
Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: "MexicoDoug" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:36 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] DAWN drives up to Vesta
Hi everyone with a bit of Vesta fun,
This is a different kind of encounter to visit Vesta, not like
we're
used to hearing about anyway from visits to the Moon, Mars. At the
moment, it's about 13,000 km (9,000 miles) to Vesta and like a nice
Chevy Camaro (or a Ford Mustang in a pinch) DAWN is cruising along
the
interplanetary highway (route I-5 in honor of Vesta's soon to be
crowning as a dwarf planet, the fifth planet, considering all roads
lead to and from Earth). Get ready to promote all of your HED
meteorites ;-), even the moon isn't planetary according to the IAU
...
because where the rock is matters to them for some fool reason.
Is there really much risk to the Vesta orbital insertion? I'd say
no,
nothing to hold your breath over. Does anyone recall the
Six-Million
Dollar Man - he pretty much could could run the approach to Vesta -
heck even we could, so I'm imagining DAWN tooling along in slow
motion
just as he would, for the effect of speed (of course by slowing
down
-
I need a psychologist to explain why we are now all conditioned
from
television to feel speed when the film is slowed down with
interesting
sound effects).
The real risk, I'm guessing has already been made and we are kind
of
stuck with it and most depends on the assumption of Vesta's mass
barring mechanical steering failure which is very unlikely during
this
critical maneuver considering the long track record and minimum of
moving parts and that it would have to be for a much longer time
than
a conventional propellant motor. If the target is an initial orbit
around Vesta at 100 km altitude, for example, I'm thinking how
close
they will get to it since changing the course significantly on
these
incredibly weak ion engines is like trying to turn the Titanic on a
dime - you can't. The real risk would be to basically know the
mass
of Vesta (or the product of G*M). I'm not sure how accurate that
it
was known and I'm betting that a lot of work has gone into refining
the number for the purpose of navigation on this mission. It
really
wasn't that well determined before! So that is already one benefit
of
the mission - Vesta's mass.
I don't know the initial altitude insertion target, let's assume it
is
between 100 km and 500 km and somewhat circular (though an
eccentric
orbit might be chosen), the spacecraft will accelerate to around
294
to 377 mph (31 m/s to 168 m/s ; or, 474 to 606 km/h ) and the speed
will determine the initial altitude. So as long as the spacecraft
is
within that speed range, I think, and has decent pointing
capability
(which is all happening in slow motion due to the nature of the
engines), now, it is a done deal, whoever figured out a mass good
enough to navigate to Vesta is a real hero here and deserves the
congratultations - as the main power must be coming from the
gravitational acceleration into Vesta now and the ion engine mostly
secondary and primarily for (slow) steering manuevers.
The other detail I see is that since Vesta isn't perfectly round,
if
they don't pick an "iso-radial" or whatever you call a constant
diameter great circle in Vesta that happens to not be oblong, I
think
that even a circular orbit could be fun, like a ride at an amusment
park - the ground could actually be going up and down below you 65
km
during each orbit - at a 100 km orbit, that would be pretty
awesome.
And also a reason not to start with an orbit too low right away for
fear of getting Vesta whipped. Being in a circular orbit but
having
it feel elliptical without doing anything! Charlie Sheen could
make
a
better joke than I can here ...
All this assumes no atmosphere. That seems like a good assumption
since many spectra have been taken of Vesta - but, there
theoretically
could be a a few patches of dust floating around. With those huge
(and beautiful work of art) solar panels that conceivable could be
a
consideration and would be a first instance of
"micro-meteoroid-braking" a.k.a., sand-blasting.
Lots of fun things to think about Vesta while they are still not
confirmed, which won't last long ... just thought I'd note these
thoughts in case anyone was interested while we all take a
vicarious
walk to Vesta and route for the home team. I guess I need a "blog"
Best wishes
Doug
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
--
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at >
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at >
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__________ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version
6301 > (20110717) __________
E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
