Hi guys

Firstly awesome work Stephen! Mezzanine & Cartridge are exactly what I was 
looking for.

Have you guys made any progress on the merging the cart and order? I am 
also in the process of implementing an external payment via direct POST, 
and also need the order id before payment is completed.

Regards

On Saturday, December 13, 2014 at 4:21:58 AM UTC+2, Stephen McDonald wrote:
>
> The idea around merging carts and orders into one makes sense in all the 
> ways you discussed - let's try that and see where it goes.
>
> Thanks a lot Alex.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Alexander Hill <al...@hill.net.au 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>> Lots of good points there.
>>
>> I suppose I have unconsciously been thinking about this from the 
>> perspective of someone who needs to take payments via external POST, and 
>> also happens to want the unfinished orders hanging around as well. So 
>> cleaning up and hiding the unfinished orders didn't occur to me.
>>
>> I agree that this change doesn't warrant all of that, and I would be 
>> happy with an easier way to make this configurable. One easy thing we could 
>> change would be to make sure Cartridge's OrderForm works nicely if passed 
>> an instance. I have no idea how far this is from being the case currently 
>> (missing argument to __init__ aside). I'll have a play with this shortly.
>>
>>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> Another somewhat (!) more invasive idea is to unify orders and carts. I 
>> think that could actually simplify Cartridge quite a lot, as there's a lot 
>> of code marshalling data between sessions, carts and orders currently. Let 
>> every order begin as a cart, and simply add data to it as the user 
>> progresses through the checkout and payment steps. The status field would 
>> indicate how far the order has come – cart, checkout, payment, complete, 
>> processed.
>>
>> We would be able to clean out old unfinished orders for free – we already 
>> do that with carts. As a bonus, we'd also get user-based carts for free, 
>> since carts/orders would have the user_id field set. We would satisfy the 
>> use cases mentioned in this thread, and simplify the code and schema.
>>
>> Big change I know, but what do you reckon?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Stephen McDonald <st...@jupo.org 
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know, which means I guess I'm not set. I understand the desire 
>>> for it, but I've always felt it's important with Mezzanine and Cartridge to 
>>> reject certain features, even when they'd be useful to someone, especially 
>>> when they start to compromise the original intent of how things have been 
>>> designed.
>>>
>>> So I suppose If it could be implemented simply enough with a setting, 
>>> then sure - but what does it really entail? 
>>>
>>> It would need some documentation around it, describing why unfinished 
>>> orders get left floating around, and how they could possibly be cleaned up. 
>>> It'd even best be up to Cartridge to provide the management command that 
>>> does that, and notes in the documentation on how it can be used as a cron 
>>> job.
>>>
>>> The SHOP_ORDER_STATUS_CHOICES will need something like an "Unfinished" 
>>> status as well. Then the admin will need support too - if unfinished orders 
>>> remain in the db, it really makes no sense for them to appear by default.
>>>
>>> You can see one seemingly small option controlled by a setting really 
>>> does have a flow-on effect throughout the project, which is a major part of 
>>> why I don't want it. Is this really not something that can be implemented 
>>> by doing away with the final checkout step views of Cartridge, and just 
>>> using something custom? 
>>>
>>> Actually a better question might be - how can we make this configurable 
>>> somehow, without actually implementing "order objects get created before 
>>> payment" feature? Could we not break the checkout form (which I recall as 
>>> being swappable via a setting) up into enough overridable methods, that 
>>> control the behaviour, similar to how a lot of class based views work?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alexander Hill <al...@hill.net.au 
>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My understanding is that if CC details touch your server, even in 
>>>> memory, you need to be compliant. The official PCI body says "The DSS 
>>>> globally applies to *all* entities that store, process or transmit 
>>>> cardholder data" at 
>>>> https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/pdfs/pci_ssc_quick_guide.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I agree that Cartridge's simplicity is a strength, but I don't feel 
>>>> that adding this feature will compromise that. Are you pretty set on this, 
>>>> or is it worth me making a branch and seeing if it can be done without 
>>>> complicating things too much?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Stephen McDonald <st...@jupo.org 
>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There was a lengthy mailing list discussion on this years ago where 
>>>>> everyone agreed that there shouldn't be unfinished orders floating around 
>>>>> in the database.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still agree with that and I'm not particularly keen on the idea of 
>>>>> having to maintain this as an option and feature. Cartridge is 
>>>>> intentionally very simple and limited compared to the alternatives, I'd 
>>>>> rather keep it that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW I naively assumed that Cartridge dealt with credit card handling 
>>>>> well enough from a PCI-DSS perspective - the card number doesn't get 
>>>>> stored anywhere and is only posted from one checkout step form to the 
>>>>> next.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Alexander Hill <al...@hill.net.au 
>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Josh,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm interested to hear from Steve too. Since Cartridge was initially 
>>>>>> written to call payment processors from the server, only creating the 
>>>>>> orders after payment was submitted makes sense it makes sense – doing so 
>>>>>> earlier  does introduce a bit of extra complexity. Keeping the cart in 
>>>>>> sync 
>>>>>> with the order if the customer gets up to the payment step and then adds 
>>>>>> items, for example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember reading through cartridge-payments a couple of years back. 
>>>>>> I'm a bit wary of side-effects in forms (like saving the order object). 
>>>>>> That said, it's a clever way of getting it done without any custom view 
>>>>>> code, which is what I'm doing. I might copy it :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I missing something or is the added callback_uuid field not 
>>>>>> strictly necessary? The order number should uniquely identify the 
>>>>>> payment 
>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>> On Dec 10, 2014 12:45 AM, "Josh Cartmell" <joshc...@gmail.com 
>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like the idea of having an order ID before payment (for the 
>>>>>>> reasons you outlined) but I'd be curious to hear if Steve had any 
>>>>>>> particular reason for not doing this when he originally created 
>>>>>>> Cartridge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, in case you haven't seen it you might want to look at 
>>>>>>> https://github.com/explodes/cartridge-payments
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Alexander Hill <al...@hill.net.au 
>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't want credit card details touching our server for PCI-DSS 
>>>>>>>> reasons and have a no-Javascript constraint, so I use direct POST with 
>>>>>>>> our 
>>>>>>>> payment processor. In my project I create an Order instance before the 
>>>>>>>> payment page is displayed, so that I'm able to pass the correct order 
>>>>>>>> number to my payment processor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I remember seeing a similar workaround in someone else's payment 
>>>>>>>> processing code a long time ago so I assume this kind of thing might 
>>>>>>>> be 
>>>>>>>> useful to more than just me. It's quite messy to bolt on aftermarket, 
>>>>>>>> so I 
>>>>>>>> propose integrating it into Cartridge, probably toggled by a new 
>>>>>>>> setting, 
>>>>>>>> SHOP_CREATE_ORDER_BEFORE_PAYMENT or similar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This change also has the helpful side-effect of allowing one to 
>>>>>>>> query incomplete orders – I have a job that sends a daily email 
>>>>>>>> summary of 
>>>>>>>> incomplete orders to sales staff, for example.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Stephen McDonald
>>>>> http://jupo.org
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Stephen McDonald
>>> http://jupo.org
>>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Stephen McDonald
> http://jupo.org
>

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