Thanx for those books. I'll have to look them up.
People give lip service to the concepts in the Declaration of
Independence and the Constitution but the concepts everyone remembers
and are so vocal about have been preempted by subsequent laws and
sometimes the sentiments they express are now illegal.
On Sep 24, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
The US Constitution became a historical relic in 1865. Lincoln
suspended most all of the relevant personal guarantees defined in
the Constitution... and used a clause from the Articles of the
Confederation for justification for the War. The government has
given the document lip service but little else since.
For those interested, a good read on the topic of secession is "A
View of the Constitution of the United States of America" by William
Rawle of Philadelphia, PA, Pub 1825. It was the definitive Textbook
at the time on the Constitution and was required reading at The US
Military Academy at West Point.
To summarize, the text states that each state had the right to
secede... Prior to the "Civil War", Secession was not just a
"Southern Idea" but an American Idea.
Also note that the the text was authored by a person with a
"northern perspective" from our viewpoint of history.
For a great read on American Cycles read "The Fourth Turning",
1996 by William Strauss and Neil Howe. An amazing work which
documents where we've been , and what can be expected. Synopsis :
The Anglo-American society has an 80 to 100 year cycle divided into
4 phases, The Fourth Turning being at the end of the cycle and is
characterized as crisis where all the marbles are bet for
existence. There have been 4 during the US Government control of
the Society, the 1st lasted through the revolutionary period, the
2nd, began in 1860, the 3rd in 1930-1945, and we are now entering
the 4th cycle. The crisis period will last until the mid 2020's.
It is a fascinating read...
Tony
[email protected] wrote:
Actually don't think the slavery ownership in the title fits the
content. Yes many people owned slaves, but that was considered
normal then.
I'll bet there's not a person on this list that doesn't have a
slave or 2 in their background. If you're Jewish obviously you
come from a slave background. Read the Bible, slavery is a common
element for people of all color and descent. Go back to your
history books, it's almost in every chapter. Bottom line is
slavery was never considered as evil as we think of it today. Does
that make it right? No, but it explains the mindset and the fact
that it existed. What do we do today that our ancestors will think
of as barbaric?
But back to your content. I agree, but I'd bet I'm one in a short
line. People profess to understand and support the constitution,
the Declaration of Independence and many other noble and highly
regarded historical concepts, but they don't realize most of them
don't apply any more. Actually the Civil War was one of the big
turning away moment of our history and the views upon which this
country was founded.
The Declaration of Independence tells us that all people have the
right to break away from any form of government we don't support,
but that law was changed after the Civil War. Texas joined the
union with the express provision that they could secede at any time
they wanted. I'm told a couple of other states have/had that
right. What do you think present day law says?
So do we hold these truths to be self evident? Not unless the
media tells us to.
On Sep 24, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Jason C wrote:
Better to look at the philosophy than the men.
The weak mind is concerned about appearances.
The average mind is concerned with personalities.
The strong mind is concerned with ideas.
The ideas are:
- self-rule
- de-centralization of power
- most laws affecting the average person are as local as possible
- a gov't that protects inalienable individual rights and has a
short list of allowable powers
(criminals who violate others' individual rights lose some of
their rights).
These would prevent the scum of the earth from taking over
positions of power and screwing the rest of us over..
Jefferson said there are basically 2 kinds of political beliefs:
1) the belief that most people are good and that the purpose of
gov't is to prevent the bad few from taking over, and
2) the belief that people are mostly untrustworthy and power
should be given to a ruling class to control the masses.
The science of psychopathy supports the first one. What do you
think?
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: secession
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:28 PM
In a message dated 9/24/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected]
writes:
Our four fathers ( I don't why they call them that cause I know
there were more than 4) set the constitution up the way they did
just to stop the kinds of excesses we are seeing today.
Haha... but they were also slave holders, and if they could
interpret their words today to mean what they meant in their time,
we may find that they were not such wonderful folks at all.
Still, I'm glad they existed, even though I'm not glad about their
method of making money.
History has a way of hiding the awful truth in favor of better
legend, and perhaps that's not a bad thing, as it gives us
something BETTER to work toward.
BTW, our "Founding Fathers" were actually led by 12 Presidents of
various forms of government BEFORE George Washington become
President. He is recognized and the first Prez only because he
was the first under the constituion of 1789. Indeed, Ol' George
was the 13th President of the assemblage we now call the USA.
Jerry aka LGO
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