To paraphrase Ron White, you can’t fix stupid, but you can go back and correct for it. At least this isn’t as embarrassing as Jason Russell’s episode. Not much could be, so that might not be saying much.
First of all, the fact that the issue was intermittent should have pointed me to an electrical problem rather than a mechanical one. Another hint, it got worse the more I fiddled with stuff under the hood. The problem ended up being a “loose connection.” Following Bill’s advice, I checked for spark. Yep, got spark. The only other thing, then, was to verify the timing was set correctly by verifying the proper alignment of the crank pulley and the cam pulleys. I convinced myself that I rotated the crank while tightening the crank bolt without holding it in place with the FM tool. The car had begun to act like it was poorly timed anyway (hard starting, stumble on throttle blip, etc.). As I started disassembling to get down to pulley access, I had to move all the wiring etc. out of the way. When I came to a connector on the front of the engine, between the thermostat housing, the PS pump, and the timing belt cover, that connector came apart without trying. I’m not sure, but it looked like that connector went to the crank angle sensor. Holy @#$^(*. Back goes about 30 minutes of disassembly and, gloriosky, the car starts, runs fine, no stumble, no misfire. Thanks again for everybody’s help. From: Wiseman, Curtis J Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) Okay, more info, less solution. I realized I might not have cleared the P0340 code so I cleared it and took another reading. The engine still could be made to stumble easily (by blipping the throttle at idle) but the code did not reappear. I called Bill C. We checked: the rough alignment of the intake cam (set crank to TDC, peer through cam position sensor hole, check tooth alignment with known-good engine in FM shop (yes, Bill went to the shop and ran the same test on an engine there)), main relay function (12V power on white/red wire at connector near charcoal canister), fuel pump operation (short two unlabeled pins in the diagnostic connector, listen for pump). The more I checked and the more I didn’t find the problem, the worse the car ran until now it won’t start at all. It ran a good 40 miles between the timing belt change and now too. Next to check is spark. Pull #1 plug, lay it on the valve cover and crank, look for spark. After that, pull the cam cover and check to make sure I didn’t get the timing off somehow, even with a ninja tool. Argh. Many, many thanks to Bill for walking me through all that over the phone. Thanks also to the list members that have responded with data and suggestions. I think I’ll wait to pull the cam cover until I can dedicate several hours to the job. I don’t want to get part way done and have to quit and pick back up. I’ll check back in with the list later. From: Ray [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:50 PM To: Wiseman, Curtis J; [email protected] Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) Since the code can be generated for improper cam pulse timing relative to the crank pulse, a flaky (but not dead) crank signal can cause it. This is the kind of situation where an oscilloscope is invaluable. From: Wiseman, Curtis J<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:28 PM To: mailto:[email protected] Subject: RE: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) Frustration setting in…. I got my Rock Auto cam position sensor in the mail today, installed it five minutes later and … no change. Still misfires and throws P0340. At least I didn’t pay Mazda retail for it. So, gents, what would you suggest now? I assume the next step is to order a crank position sensor and install that? I hate to throw parts at something but I’m not sure what else to do. Is there something else I could have disturbed or installed incorrectly when doing the timing belt job? Coils (on top, 2002)? Plug wires? Those could cause a misfire but I don’t know if those would cause a P0340. Arrrgh. Curtis From: Wiseman, Curtis J Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:30 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) OK then….I tried everybody’s suggestions and ended up with the same results, if not a little bit worse. I checked the wiring for pinches, unplugged/replugged the connector several times to clean the contacts, checked the clearance on the crank angle sensor, repositioned and cleaned the sensor itself (there is some tolerance in the mounting). On the plus side, this gave me an opportunity to use the feeler gauge I bought in 1977 to gap the plugs on my 1971 Mach 1. I now have tools that are approaching middle age! Thanks everybody for your suggestions. Larry suggested Rock Auto for the part (which is my “go to” for generic parts anyway) and it is indeed cheaper by far than Mazda ($50). My own suggestion is that, when you order from Rock Auto, be sure to google for a coupon code to save 5% while you’re at it. I’ll install the part in a few days and let you all know if that works. From: Wiseman, Curtis J Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:56 PM To: Bill Cardell; [email protected] Subject: RE: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) Hey Bill, Two things I didn’t realize. One, I didn’t know I won the contest. Who knew the Bat Signal would prevail? Secondly, I didn’t realize the crank sensor would throw a P0340 too. So I just rotate the crank until a tooth on the disk behind the crank pulley is next to its sensor and use a feeler guage? Bend to fit if necessary? Curtis From: Bill Cardell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:26 PM To: Wiseman, Curtis J; [email protected] Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) Curtis, The cam sensors do fail, but check the crank sensor air gap before you buy any parts. Just line up a tooth with the pickup, make sure gap is .030-.040". Easy to bump the sensor during a timing belt and it's a stupid design with only one bolt holding it to the oil pump and nothing to index it. PS Congrats on winning the first Ninja tool picture contest. Still time for the rest of you guys, one more prize. Bill Cardell Owner, Flyin Miata Sales 1-800-359-6957 Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/ ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wiseman, Curtis J Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: 2002 P0340 after Timing Belt (NPC) Hello all, Sorry for the lack of power content. I did a timing belt change on my 2002. No leaks, no slipped teeth (Ninja tool FTW), no problems…I thought. A couple of days later, the engine had a severe stumble under no special conditions. Ran fine for the rest of the trip (~5 miles). Next trip, minor stumble. Clutch in, observed uneven idle on tach while coasting at speed. Next trip, severe stumble again and CEL. Pulled the code and it’s P0340, Cam Position Sensor. From research, I know these go bad. Before spending $90 on a replacement, is there something else I should check? It’s certainly curious that it “failed” just after I had the cam cover off and the CPS connector unplugged/replugged. Is it possible that the cam cover is reinstalled slightly “off” so that the positioning of the CPS is marginal with respect to the cam? Something else? Thanks for your help, Curtis ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
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