I'm going to reply to several responses at once. >> Why not create a new mailing list for each proposal, once it's >> reached a certain stage? Ryan King>> Because that's more administrative overhead for Ryan King>> admin's who're already overloaded.
The problem is that the current Microformat process is not at all scalable. It is much like having you managing a file containing all domain names, and anytime someone wants a new domain name or subdomain, or make a change, they have to get your time and attention. I think we all know what a boon DNS was. We should look to benefit from prior knowledge and organize the Microformat inititive so it can scale. Frances Berriman>> I agree. Creating a list for each proposal Frances Berriman>> seems unmanageable and would result in Frances Berriman>> a lot of dead lists eventually. It all depends on how you manage the process. If you make new lists willy-nilly, yes. But if we look for a group of people that are serious about creating an Microformat ontology for a vertical area and we have obviously committted people, then I see no reason why most lists would not end up thriving. Frances Berriman>> Personally, I quite like watching the general Frances Berriman>> chatter about various proposals - rather Frances Berriman>> than having to subscribe to each individual Frances Berriman>> one. Maybe you do, but I'm already maxed trying to watch this list with the traffic is has; if it doubled, trippled, or was an order of magnitude more, there is no way I could ever deal with it. And I have to believe the same would be true for you. Andy Mabbett>> For example, several academic and professional Andy Mabbett>> taxonomists have told me in e-mail that they Andy Mabbett>> would be interested in the species proposal, Andy Mabbett>> (and one astronomer, likewise, for mars/ luna), Andy Mabbett>> but donot have the time to follow a general Andy Mabbett>> mailing list; indeed, a couple asked me specifically Andy Mabbett>> if I would set up a separate mailing list for the subject. Andy Mabbett>> How do you suggest that we engage such people? I'm 100% with Andy on this. Delegating authority for vertical microformats is the only way to scale the initiative, and this initiative, and this initiative could explode in a very good way if we just give it the right mechanisms and reduce the friction. John Allsopp>> I reiterate my suggestion for a "modern" forum like John Allsopp>> BBPress, where you can subscribe via RSS to individual John Allsopp>> threads, where threads can be tagged, where searching John Allsopp>> is much less of a pain than with a mailing list ... I'm also 100% with John on this. Forums also given the benefit of providing a much multidimensional organization for archives. It's also much, much easier to follow the history for a thread. You can also do a lot more with search engine optization of a forum to bring in interest people. Colin Barrett>> I don't like forums because I have to go to a website Colin Barrett>> to use them. And I *far* prefer using a forum over a mailing list. The only reason I'm on this mailing list is because my interest in Microformats outweights how much I despise using mailing lists. Which means I'm highly interested in Microformats because I really, really despise mailing lists. And I don't like mailing lists because I tried to stay focused but getting messages is a constant interruption (yes I use an inbox rule, but Outlook freezes for a split second every time I get messages, so I am constantly aware of them. I sometimes have to take my laptop somewhere so I can work without all the infernal email. I hate to say it, but it sure was nice with the list server was down. ;) Colin Barrett>> I'd much rather work from my email Colin Barrett>> client, which has a nice big text box, Colin Barrett>> unlike a forum, which often have Colin Barrett>> ridiculously small text entry elements. "Always have ridiculously small text entry elements" would be a valid reason not to use a forum, but "often have ridiculously small text entry elements" is not. It seems like maybe you haven't actually seen some of the newer forums in use over the past ~5 years? Any chance you developed this bias early on when forums sucked, and haven't returned to use a forum since? (I'm not attacking you, just frustrated with having to use this list when forums IMO are so much better. I also had someone who is using a forum I administer fight me tooth and nail to stick with email, and a year later she is one of the highest volume users of the forum.) I'd done a lot of research into forums, and I've come to the conclusion there is really only one forum worth seriously considering for its features and 3rd party support (unless you are on Windows Server) and that is vBulletin (http://www.vbulletin.com). It doesn't have tiny little text boxes and have some really incredible features. And if costs $85/year to rent or $160 to buy w/a year of upgrades; definitely a bargain. What's more, it has a mailing list integration module (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=65152) so we could have the best of both worlds. The envelope pushers could have their forum, and the lluddites could stick with email. ;-) Colin Barrett>> Plus, the UI in my email client is much nicer than that of most forums. vBulletin can be configured to send posts to your email, so you'll be able to still use your email client for reading if you like. Colin Barrett>> There are a host of other Colin Barrett>> disadvantages to using a forum. Can you detail those disadvantages for us to discuss/debate? Colin Barrett>> Granted, mailing lists aren't perfect, but we have one now and it works. A vBulletin forum can be set up in a two hours max. I'll run it if that's an option so it would only be my time. Colin Barrett>> Forums also require a bit more administration Colin Barrett>> than a mailing list, and our list administrators Colin Barrett>> are already over-worked, it seems. How does it take more admin? I administer a vBulletin forum right now and it takes almost no time at all. You don't have to worry about issues with POP3 and SMTP so it IMO is actually easier. -Mike Schinkel http://www.mikeschinkel.com/blogs/ http://www.welldesignedurls.org/ _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list [email protected] http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
