Jeremy Keith wrote:

I think you might be missing a lot of the tongue-in-cheekiness of the term. Nobody thinks it's a particularly good or clever term but it's better than saying "not a microformat" as in when someone writes "I've just created my own microformat" and they are then told "no, what you have created is...[insert term here]"


Yep - it's quite possible I missed the extent of the tongue-in-cheekiness of it! It might be assumed that others will, too...

It doesn't matter what the term itself is. If you'd rather say "a semantic HTML pattern", that's fine. If the term POSH dies off, that's fine. The term itself is unimportant. What's important is that people are thinking about how to create and use semantic markup patterns and (crucially) also realising that a semantic markup pattern by itself isn't a microformat.

So I think lumping this with microformats partly defeats the point - it has the potential to confuse and seemingly complicate things, rather than clarify and simplify them.

No argument there. But you can see how we still need somewhere to point people to when we say things like "Before you start using microformats you should be using [insert term here]" or "What you're proposing doesn't need to be a microformat but it's a great example of [insert term here]".


Absolutely - I see a very important need for the microformats community to ensure basic semantic practices are understood. I'm just not convinced that POSH is the right way to go about it. Aren't there adequate resources, both technical (Simple Quiz, Bite Size Standards, HTML Dog, etc.) and evangelical (WaSP, Zeldman, loads of others), out there already to point to? It seems a bit like re-inventing the wheel, and adding yet another term to Geekworld will surely confuse things for some people.

Personally I think http://htmldog.com/ would be a great resource to point people to when they need some tutorials and references on semantic HTML. If you wanted to set up a disambiguation page on your site (including whatever personal issues you have with using the POSH acronym if you like) it would make a great jumping-off point for people who need to brush up on their meaningful markup: people who, as you point out, are coming to microformats too soon:


How's this in addition: A quick and friendly "Are you ready for microformats?" quiz, with a few semantics-related questions and helpful explanatory answers?

I'd be happy to do this, and your suggestion, and help in other ways where I can. Might have to wait until mid-June though. Damned real-world work getting in the way and all that :)


Patrick

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