El vie, 24 de 12 de 2004 a las 17:13, Carlos Bonifetti escribi�: > Hi Max and all: > > OK. I think that there is no other Nigel IGC's in Chile that the 2 we have > at MTF, waiting for a space of time and a good and cheap pico Pelton or > Turgo runner. If you see that Osorno's runners are good enough,
They are slowly, slowly improving... but we should not hope for miracles, in spite they have all the tools, "it's in the brainware". Fortunately the owner has a genuine interest in alternate energies, but this does not invest the guys who actually do the work with any additional precision in machining. For now they're abandoning the idea of bolting the buckets and will solder 'em. I expect prices around 80 to 100 000 CLP plus dynamic equilibration, done by another enterprise, which comes at 45 000 CLP a runner, so if you've got any better deal let's explore it. > we can make > together a prototype with one of my IGC's, when I came back from my > Hollidays, after 15.01.05. You're the most welcome! I'm organizing a short trip to learn organic beekeeping in Pumalin around jan. 17, will have to go to SCL before the end of january to do some paperwork, and we're changing the roof of the house during the short patagonian summer, but we'll find time. With a little chance, we'll have a 12 cm p.c.d. bronze runner ready, otherwise bring one with a 1 inch bore (or we have the bore machined in PVaras). We've got a brand new chinese 4 HP, 2900 RPM triphasic induction motor with a 1 inch, keyed axis. > > Turgo runners could by imported from our colleagues in Bolivia, as another > option, but we must list a minimum qty. and sure sites first for economy > scale. What is the size of the runners they are making? material? axis bores? Because of the angle water is injected on them, Turgos could be harder than Peltons to direct-couple to standard induction motors without further axis lenghtening thru soldering or coupling. > > I have no practical experience with "pumps as turbines" but a was reading > the related SKAT and ITDG manuals about it. I've got the book from Arthur Williams (like everyone else), and also have found a couple of sites http://www.pumpsasturbines.org.uk/ (features a spreadsheet taken from the book to calculate optimum pump head and flow from the site's characterisitcs). and Vijay's: http://people.cornell.edu/pages/vkm2/public_all.htm http://people.cornell.edu/pages/vkm2/workwhole.htm which has a *lot* of interesting practical experiences and lessons learned. Indeed PATS are quite unpredictable, even if you get all the theoretical calculations right you'll find unexpected results... > Things are as follows: pump as turbines (PAT's) must be some medium or big > sizes for good applications (some inlet/outlet diameters like 6"/4" or > 8"/6"). Pedrollo small pumps are too small for PAT's, and commercial ones > have 2 poles motors, as you said. >From Vijay's site we can see he's been installing some PATS with relatively small sizes, but performance is sort of disappointing. I say: Let's try. ;-) With > 100 m head we have spare pressure to run it. I'd be worried to try it first with the other sites that have only 50 m head. > > Another point is that working point is only one, with fixed flow i.e. the > flow for max. efficiency at the pump characteristic curve; It's no possible > work PAT at partial flow. So, the inlet valve must operated ON or OFF.) indeed. At 4 l/s the Pedrollo wold be a bit at the left of its performance curve. The alternative would be smaller pump frames that come with smaller motors. Still, if it works it can be cost-effective compared with car alternators-plus-batteries-plus-inverters. > > Waiting hearing from you by end of January. Just send me the dates you can come to see us... Greetings, Max ps: Another source for IGCs (Nigel Smith recommended) in Peru: Celso D�vila Vasquez [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Prices FOB from Lima: Tarjeta 1kW = US $ 200.00 Tarjeta 3 kW = US $ 270.00 Tablero 1 kW = US $ 600.00 Tablero 2 kW = US $ 750.00 How does this compare with prices from other sources? > > Greetings & Merry Christmas, > > Carlos > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Max Klohn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Looking for pico I.G.C. > > > > > > > > Hi Carlos and all, > > > > Thank you for the address, I have been looking too for a reliable source > > of Nigel Smith's IGCs in Chile. Nigel gave me another contact in Peru, > > but I have found that for small orders shipping can add significantly to > > the costs, so the quest goes on. If you have some of those at hand, or > > know a source in Chile, please let me know. > > > > During this year I have been talking with some "maestranza" in Osorno to > > have 12 cm p.c.d. pelton runners correctly made (cast bronze), the first > > results are out and, while functional, not really up to, er, > > international standards (they mostly lack precision with small pieces). > > Moreover they announced a price hike (the initial price offer was very > > competitive, about CLP 60 000 for a 12 cm cast bronze, bolted runner, so > > it was worth investigating). > > > > Exploring other systems for pico-hydro instalaltions, I have been > > looking at Pedrollo pumps, readily available in Puerto Montt. They come > > with a triphasic motor (unfortunately only 2 poles, no 4 or 6 poles, so > > 2900 RPM running speed). > > I have prospected several sites that could fit with the CP 25 / 200 A or > > CP 25 / 200 AR > > > > http://www.pedrollo.co.uk/ped_cp25_desc.htm > > > > The questions: > > * Does anyone in the list have experience with pumps as turbines, and > > especially those ones? > > * Any comments about this design? Specific stuff to take into account > > when using Pumps-as-Turbines? > > > > Seasons greetings, > > > > Max > > > > > > > > > > El mar, 21 de 12 de 2004 a las 11:57, Carlos Bonifetti escribi�: > >> Nando, Ricardo and all: > >> > >> Together to Nando's aid, I can tell you that the good IGC from Nigel > >> Smith > >> for IMAG'S is known in ITDG Per� by means of Technology Transfer from > >> Nigel > >> in training courses at Cajamarca and Lima, some years ago. > >> I have two IGC's from Nigel (one assembled in a training course at Lima) > >> for > >> pico turbines prototypes that are still pending here at our works. > >> If you need more information about it, please contact Saul Ramirez at > >> ITDG, > >> Per�: [EMAIL PROTECTED], or Teodoro Sanchez, England: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> Best regards, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year, > >> > >> Carlos Bonifetti > >> MTF LTDA. > >> Chile > >> ------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Nando" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 8:12 PM > >> Subject: Re: [microhydro] Looking for pico I.G.C. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Ricardo : > >> > > >> > Connect directly with me, may be I can help you > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > Nando > >> > > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Ricardo Tsukamoto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > To: <[email protected]> > >> > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 9:47 AM > >> > Subject: [microhydro] Looking for pico I.G.C. > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dear colleagues, > >> >> > >> >> I need to provide electricity to two houses used for biological > >> >> research > >> >> in the Brazilian rainforest. For that, I�m assembling a picohydro > >> >> installation using an induction motor (1 HP trif. 220 VAC) as > >> >> generator > >> >> directly coupled to a turgo turbine (supplied by Joseph Hartvigsen), > >> >> and > >> >> following instructions given in the books by Nigel Smith (Motors as > >> >> Generators) and Phillip Maher (Pico Power Pack). > >> >> > >> >> I was able to acquire almost all the components, but just could�n get > >> >> the electronic load controller (Induction Generator Controller) of the > >> >> type devised by Prof. Nigel Smith. > >> >> > >> >> Accordingly, is such I.G.C. available in South America (especially in > >> >> Brazil) or is there a way to obtain a copy of its design ? > >> >> > >> >> Thanking for your kind cooperation, > >> >> > >> >> Best Regards, > >> >> Ricardo Y. Tsukamoto, Ph.D. > >> >> Sao Paulo, Brazil > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > >> > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > >> > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > >> >> > >> >> NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > >> > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > >> > not > >> > endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > >> >> > >> >> More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > >> >> > >> >> To unsubscribe: send empty message to > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > >> > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? 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