>> >>> the discontinuation of efforts to develop a successor to the iconic >>> aircraft has been attributed to the 757’s high production costs.
I don't understand this one. Same airframe as a B737. You have the existing wings and landing gear that does not require MCAS, you could put the B737 cockpit suite in it - even a B737 nose & cockpit, given same fuselage - so what costs so much more? It must have been about not having a candidate engine, at that time? Now, if there are engines for A321XLR and B737-10, it should work on a B757, no? TR ---------------------------------------- *From: *Dan Solon via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> *To: *mifnet@lists.mifnet.com *CC: *Dan Solon <dansolon....@gmail.com> *Date: *2025-08-23T16:13:22Z *Subject: *[Mifnet 🛰 73778] Re: 797 > Eric, Karl et al., > > This is a reminder, if any were needed, of how valuable Mifnet is to > gound-based nerds like the undersigned. > I still think the clods in charge of Boeing could have done more to keep the > 757/767 lines going, despite the > relative commercial failure of the 757-300 and 767-400. Why concede a market > sector to your competitor in a > duopoly, where the competitor stands to pick up loose chips? > > Separately, a query re distance/description. Where does "Deep South America" > begin in US airline terminology? > Loosely the equivalent of a transcon, e.g. ,NYC-California or closer/farther > from MIA? > > Daniel Solon > Always eager to learn from Mifnetters who know what they're talking about. > > On Sat, Aug 23, 2025 at 4:03 PM ERIC Smith via Mifnet > <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: >> Karl, >>  >> The 321NEO has plenty of power but not enough wing. Having said that the >> extra 5 ft is a big improvement on the previous 321. It climbs faster and >> levels off higher. It also gives more generous use of speedbrakes on >> descent. >>  >> Why did Airbus not give it even more wing, allowing it to climb higher into >> the upper 30s and lower the fuel flow even more? Maybe someone here knows >> the answer. It could be that a longer wingspan would result in fewer gates >> available to park it. Perhaps it has something to do with time to 10,000 ft >> after a decompression. That's what limited the cruise altitude of the MD-80 >> I'm told. >>  >> For several months last winter I flew from KMIA-SPJC(Miami-Lima) at a >> distance of 2267 NM(Any idea where I got that number?). Routinely we took >> the runway at a weight near 200,000 lbs with something like 200 souls on >> board, depending on the number of lap children. >>  >> At those weights we were frequently weight limited by either max gross >> weight or the runway limit. The issue is similar here at DCA on the way to >> LAX. In that case it's 260 NM less, about 190,000 lbs and closer alternates >> which require less fuel. We are almost always up against a runway limit on >> the DCA-LAX leg but never an engine out climb limit. >>  >> On both of those routes the initial cruise altitude will be FL310-FL330, >> eventually climbing to FL350-FL360. The fuel flow will be about 3200 lb/hr >> per engine at initial cruise altitude but down to 2800 lb/hr about half way >> to the destination. >>  >> I've spent a lot of time on the NEO near its performance limits and my >> observation is that it performs like any other a/c near it's maximum >> weights. It's slower to climb and levels off at a lower altitude. The 787 on >> a trans Atlantic flight will shoot right up to FL410 but it "struggles" out >> of Delhi on the way to JFK. I'm impressed with the NEO. It's not perfect but >> a large improvement over the earlier model and a damn good effort by Airbus. >>  >> Eric >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>> On 08/23/2025 5:15 AM EDT Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet >>> <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: >>>  >>>  >>> Good analysis, but I have comments. (Big surprise to those who know me >>> well.) >>>  >>> FWIW, I think Boeing’s decision to abandon the 757’s market was a huge >>> f-up, albeit one with qualifications. >>>  >>>> The market upsized, and the MAX 9 does not effectively compete with the >>>> A321. The better competitor would be the MAX 10, and that remains to be >>>> certified. >>>  >>> Ok, except the 737-10 (MAX 10) lacks the range of the A321XLR, so it’s not >>> an effective competitor. Boeing really has nothing to offer in response to >>> the XLR. >>>  >>>> ... the discontinuation of efforts to develop a successor to the iconic >>>> aircraft has been attributed to the 757’s high production costs. >>>  >>> I’ve not not heard that concern, and don’t understand why the 757 would be >>> significantly more expensive to build, other than slower rates. FWIW, I’ve >>> walked the 757 production line, though I’ll admit to being mostly a kid in >>> a candy store. It didn’t seem to be significantly different from the 737 >>> line. >>>  >>> — >>>  >>> One thing you didn’t mention is the engine issue: there wasn’t a good >>> replacement for the PW2000 or the RB.211-535 for the 757. Talking with >>> pilots of the A321neo, a common complaint is that it’s underpowered and >>> struggles to climb to cruise altitudes. (As a passenger, it may be my >>> favourite current aircraft, which is saying a lot for someone who once >>> actively avoided A320-family aircraft). >>>  >>>  -- Karl >>> >>>> On Aug 18, 2025, at 5:51 AM, Addison Schonland via Mifnet >>>> <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The July duopoly numbers are published. Here’s my take on what it says >>>> about not replacing the 757. >>>>  >>>> _https://airinsight.com/july-duopoly-data-demonstrates-boeings-757-error/_ >>>>  >>>> Regards, >>>> Addison Schonland >>>> _www.airinsight.aero[http://www.airinsight.aero/]_ >>>> (858) 536-9900 >>>> (858) 682-4931 – WhatsApp >>>>  >>>> *From:* Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <_mifnet@lists.mifnet.com_> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 17, 2025 8:09 PM >>>> *To:* _mifnet@lists.mifnet.com_ >>>> *Cc:* Karl L. Swartz <_karl@kls2.com_> >>>> *Subject:* [Mifnet 🛰 73671] Re: 797 >>>>  >>>> Jack, what recent article is that? I’ve seen that assertion quite a few >>>> times, albeit always from click-bait or AI-slop sources. >>>>  >>>> Whilst Boeing may be reopening studies, that’s a long way from any sort of >>>> launch. Boeing has their hands full getting the 737-7, 737-10, 777-9, and >>>> maybe 777-8 certified, and bringing up a 737 line at Everett. That’s their >>>> focus right now. >>>>  >>>> 797 would be the plausible name for such an aircraft but keep in mind that >>>> that the 787 did not receive that designation until after launch—the >>>> launch order called in the 7E7 Dreamliner: >>>>  >>>> _https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2004-04-26-Boeing-Launches-7E7-Dreamliner_ >>>>  >>>> Without knowing the general parameters of such an aircraft it’s difficult >>>> to say if there are engines for it. The engine manufacturers already have >>>> their hands full. Perhaps a scaled-down Rolls-Royce UltraFan? There’s been >>>> some work in that direction: >>>>  >>>> _https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/aircraft-propulsion/rolls-royce-launches-single-aisle-ultrafan-demonstrator-design_ >>>>  >>>>  -- Karl >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 17, 2025, at 10:09 AM, Jack Keady via Mifnet >>>> <_mifnet@lists.mifnet.com_> wrote: >>>>  >>>> keady - recent article says Boeing is cranking up study of middle market >>>> widebody currently called 797 i think. >>>>  >>>> Question - have engines developed enough to warrant a new airframe? >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Revised: 20250507 >>>> >>>> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >>>> >>>> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >>>> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >>>> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >>>> _https://wardell.us/url/mifbit_ >>>> >>>> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >>>> >>>> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >>>> privilege--not a right. >>>> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >>>> author. >>>> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >>>> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >>>> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >>>> Mifnet members. >>>> >>>> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>>>  _https://www.mifnet.com/_ >>>> >>>> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>>>  _https://lists.mifnet.com/_ >>>>  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>>> _mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave_ >>>> >>>> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>>>  _mifnet@lists.mifnet.com_ >>>> >>>> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>>>  _mifnet-owner@lists.mifnet.com_ >>>> >>>> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >>>> list traffic into 1-3 >>>>  messages daily. See instructions at: >>>>  _https://lists.mifnet.com/_ >>>> >>>> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>>>  _https://lists.mifnet.com/_ >>>> >>>> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>>>  _mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help_ >>>> >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>>>  _https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies_ >>>> >>>> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>>>  _https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems_ >>>> >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>>>  _https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/_ >>>>  >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Revised: 20250507 >>>> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >>>> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >>>> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >>>> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >>>> _https://wardell.us/url/mifbit_ >>>> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >>>> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >>>> privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent >>>> specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is >>>> collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We >>>> discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >>>> Mifnet members. >>>> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is:  _https://www.mifnet.com/_ >>>> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit:  >>>> _https://lists.mifnet.com/_  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>>> _mifnet-request@lists.mifnet.com_?subject=leave >>>> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to:  _mifnet@lists.mifnet.com_ >>>> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at:  >>>> _mifnet-owner@lists.mifnet.com_ >>>> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >>>> list traffic into 1-3  messages daily. See instructions at:  >>>> _https://lists.mifnet.com/_ >>>> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at:  _https://lists.mifnet.com/_ >>>> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via >>>> email:  _mifnet-request@lists.mifnet.com_?subject=help >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at:  >>>> _https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies_ >>>> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at:  >>>> _https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems_ >>>> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at:  >>>> _https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/_ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Revised: 20250507 >>> >>> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >>> >>> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >>> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >>> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >>> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >>> >>> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >>> >>> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >>> privilege--not a right. >>> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >>> author. >>> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >>> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >>> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >>> Mifnet members. >>> >>> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>> https://www.mifnet.com/ >>> >>> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>> OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave[http://mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave] >>> >>> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>> mifnet@lists.mifnet.com >>> >>> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>> mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com >>> >>> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >>> list traffic into 1-3 >>> messages daily. See instructions at: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>> >>> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>> >>> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help[http://mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help] >>> >>> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>> https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >>> >>> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>> https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >>> >>> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, >> please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >> >> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >> >> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not >> a right. >> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >> author. >> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other >> Mifnet members. >> >> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>  https://www.mifnet.com/ >> >> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>  OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave[http://mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave] >> >> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>  mifnet@lists.mifnet.com >> >> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>  mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com >> >> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all >> list traffic into 1-3 >>  messages daily. See instructions at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>  >> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help[http://mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help] >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >> >> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>  https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>  https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/
