I never bought the $2 per passenger mile. Whenever I've asked one of the manufacturers, noting the small pax load, they all admit it must be a premium service to start with. And once it gets the reputation as a premium service... So, to me, this is a replacement of the helicopter services already out there. The equation might be different for regional air mobility but with the limited pax loads I can't see this service as anything for the rich.
Uber-like prices? Definitely not. I just covered the Regional Airline Association meeting and all rides were 20 or more. Sticker shock. Made me wonder what a regular taxi was. Metro to Friendship Heights from Metro Center was 2.35. I've been away awhile so I was a little surprised but grateful to have the service. Cheers -- Kathryn On Sun, Sep 21, 2025 at 12:53 PM Mike Borfitz via Mifnet < mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > Hi Other Mike, > Agree, we don't want to "move fast & break things" > > I note the US military is getting plenty of demonstrations from these AAM > folks. Autonomous eVTOL deliveries to combat zones, amid other uses, makes > sense. > > In the very early days of aviation, the government essentially subsidized > the industry with air mail & military contracts. AND, by the way, the > business people actually *requested* government oversight to help with > public perceptions of safety. > > I'm seeing some parallels today, a full century later. Aside from the > military help, the tech bros & mega-companies are pushing for AAM, and the > FAA is being "encouraged" to make cert easier & quicker. Slightly different > drivers & incentives. > > The train's a-comin' & that light is getting bigger & brighter. *WILL* it > happen? Maybe, maybe not, but I've been around long enough to shy away from > making predictions. I'm just....optimistic. > > Mike Borfitz, DER > > Cell 206-714-8797 > e-Mail: m...@borfitz.com > Kilroy Aviation LLC > Website: WWW.FAAODA.COM <http://www.faaoda.com/> > > Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues > - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety > - International validation & safety matters > - Program & system management > - FAA STC ODA > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2025, 3:04 AM Michael Rurik Halaby via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > >> The technology isn’t the problem. It’s the pricing. Vertical claimed - >> again this week - $2 per pax mile which includes, amongst other costs, >> pilot cost and landing fees. >> Beta isn’t going for this market and they aren’t stuffed with tech bros >> who “move fast and break things” (never a good idea in aviation!) so I >> think they will do well. Pyka is also doing well. >> >> Michael Rurik Halaby, FRAeS >> UK mobile/WhatsApp: +447711298408 >> mich...@halaby.aero >> instagram: halabyaero >> www.halaby.aero >> >> >> On 21 Sep 2025, at 06:54, Mike Borfitz via Mifnet < >> mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: >> >> >> I'm a bit of an optimist, so I do see a future in this new technology. >> Electric motors are incredibly efficient and batteries seem to be showing a >> similar trend. I'm not a sparky so I can only generalize & relate what I've >> been watching over the last few years. >> >> Conversely, I also have a feeling it can't be easy to stuff 10 pounds of >> electrons in a 5 pound sack, to borrow an old phrase. Lithium ion batteries >> had some interesting problems related to that, as in two 787 events. But >> for the most part that's settled out quite a bit. I just can't buy the >> Achiles heel comment in the article as an absolute. >> >> It's not lost on me that the BIG GUNS are sinking huge sums of money into >> the fledgling AAM/drone/UAS (whatever) industry, as in Boeing, Airbus, >> Toyota, Daimler, etc. This feels a bit like the commercialized Very Light >> Jet days around 25 years ago. There was quite a bit of buzz around VLJ but >> it never materialized. Operational costs helped kill it but the BIG GUNS >> didn't really weigh in either. This is different. >> >> I believe hybrid has a good chance to get this whole thing going until >> the battery technology can catch up. An example is MightyFly, see the links >> below. They claim a 600 mile range at 150 MPH. Check their video, they >> tossed propellers for thrust & went to small jets, which is pretty >> innovative. I have to assume those turbines generate electricity for the >> vertical segments but they're pretty impressive. At Kilroy, we've had some >> contact with MightyFly along with a few others, and we're impressed. >> >> https://mightyfly.com/ >> >> https://youtu.be/IDGsZKXg4hc?si=dBxWzsFp2zdFE0GH >> >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2025, 2:11 PM Dan Solon via Mifnet < >> mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: >> >>> This weekend's 20-21 September edition of The New York Times >>> International carries a front-page story, "Electrifying flights in Norway", >>> continued onto page 8 with a more sober, accurately descriptive head, >>> "Norway's ambitions for electric flight." >>> >>> The body of the story avoids gee-whiz posture and includes details of >>> the Alia CX300, a single pusher-prop aircraft with fixed tricycle landing >>> gear. Identified as built by Vermont-based Beta Technologies, it has a 50 >>> foot wingspan and maximum speed of 176 mph, powered by five battery packs. >>> The unit has completed test flight in the US and had its debut at this >>> year's Paris Air Show, so has probably been seen by Mifnetters. >>> >>> A Stavanger to Bergen test flight is described in the story as a a joint >>> experiment by Beta, Bristow helicopter operators and the Norwegian airport >>> authority, Avinor, which operates 44 airports all over the country and >>> provided $5 million for the test flight. >>> >>> For balance, the story quotes Canfield University Prof. Guy Gratton as >>> pointing out that "The Achilles' heel" of electric flight is the battery. >>> He added that "I am somewhat skeptical about how good their range of >>> endurance and payload will be." >>> >>> Daniel Solon >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Revised: 20250507 >>> >>> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >>> >>> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >>> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >>> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >>> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >>> >>> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >>> >>> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >>> privilege--not a right. >>> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >>> author. >>> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >>> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >>> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of >>> other Mifnet members. >>> >>> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >>> https://www.mifnet.com/ >>> >>> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>> OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >>> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave >>> >>> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >>> mifnet@lists.mifnet.com >>> >>> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >>> mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com >>> >>> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates >>> all list traffic into 1-3 >>> messages daily. See instructions at: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>> >>> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >>> >>> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via >>> email: >>> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help >>> >>> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >>> https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >>> >>> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >>> https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >>> >>> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >>> https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/ >>> >> Mike Borfitz, DER >> >> Cell 206-714-8797 >> e-Mail: m...@borfitz.com >> Kilroy Aviation LLC >> Website: WWW.FAAODA.COM <http://www.faaoda.com/> >> >> Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues >> - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety >> - International validation & safety matters >> - Program & system management >> - FAA STC ODA >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >> >> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >> >> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >> privilege--not a right. >> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >> author. >> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of >> other Mifnet members. >> >> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >> https://www.mifnet.com/ >> >> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave >> >> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >> mifnet@lists.mifnet.com >> >> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >> mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com >> >> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates >> all list traffic into 1-3 >> messages daily. See instructions at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via >> email: >> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >> https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >> >> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >> https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Revised: 20250507 >> >> You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. >> >> The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't >> exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the >> effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: >> https://wardell.us/url/mifbit >> >> All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: >> >> 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a >> privilege--not a right. >> 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the >> author. >> 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. >> 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. >> 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of >> other Mifnet members. >> >> * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: >> https://www.mifnet.com/ >> >> * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: >> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave >> >> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: >> mifnet@lists.mifnet.com >> >> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: >> mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com >> >> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates >> all list traffic into 1-3 >> messages daily. See instructions at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/ >> >> * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via >> email: >> mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: >> https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies >> >> * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: >> https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems >> >> * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: >> https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/ >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > privilege--not a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. See instructions at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/ > -- Kathryn Creedy PHONE # 321 405 4395 US-Eastern Time Zone *Twitter*: @kcreedy *Visit me on LinkedIn*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/
