Back in the day, when I taught at the FAA Academy we ran a one week course on intro to ATC for military helicopter pilots. Always suspected it was more R&R for them who were usually Vietnam vets. For the climax of the course we showed them a picture of the radar of the LAX area. It was loaded with aircraft. The pilots were all amazed One class actually got mad and accused us of lying to them. Never did convince them.
Cheers Jim Loos On Sat, Feb 7, 2026 at 2:24 PM Viggo Butler via Mifnet < [email protected]> wrote: > The Burbank airport and the Van Nuys airport have interacted for just > under one hundred years with no accidents. The Burbank ILS is at four > degrees going over Van Nuys. The press coverage had the airports defending > themselves when they have nothing to do with flight. Why the NTSB had to > make a big splash on this isn’t clear. > > Viggo Butler > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 7, 2026, at 10:46 AM, Jack Keady via Mifnet < > [email protected]> wrote: > >  > four things that people try and make headlines with: > > > Dirty water on planes will kill you > > The bad air on planes will kill you > > Unclean tray tables and dirty lavatories on planes will kill you > > There's airports out there that will someday will kill you. > > To wit: > > > National Transportation Safety Board Chair says federal regulators are not > listening to safety concerns at Hollywood Burbank Airport > > A Southwest Airlines plane takes off past the Burbank air traffic control > tower on Oct. 7, 2025. (Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times) > > Those bumpy and rough landings and takeoffs out of Hollywood Burbank > Airport are the chatter of *legendary social media rants* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly94LmNvbS9hbnlsYXVyaWUxNi9zdGF0dXMvMTUyNTkwMzYxNzI2MTA0MzcxNT9zZm1jX2lkPTY1MjA2ZWZhNzIwNDg2MzAyOTEyODMyOCZ1dG1faWQ9NDM5OTU3MTAmc2tleV9pZD1lMjZjZGFhMTk1M2ViNTI0NmNkZDcwODAwYWRlOWU1NDkyMTY3MDAyYWE1M2FjMzU3MmI4ZWU0NTVmNjY2NmJi/65206efa7204863029128328B5d0ee600> > . > > They’ve left passengers with an “*unnerving feeling* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS9yL0Fza0FQaWxvdC9jb21tZW50cy8xZm5zaDJ1L3VubmVydmluZ19hcHByb2FjaF90b19idXJiYW5rX2FpcnBvcnRfeWVzdGVyZGF5Lz9zZm1jX2lkPTY1MjA2ZWZhNzIwNDg2MzAyOTEyODMyOCZ1dG1faWQ9NDM5OTU3MTAmc2tleV9pZD1lMjZjZGFhMTk1M2ViNTI0NmNkZDcwODAwYWRlOWU1NDkyMTY3MDAyYWE1M2FjMzU3MmI4ZWU0NTVmNjY2NmJi/65206efa7204863029128328B8351ede3>” > or feeling like “*stones skipping on water* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhyZWFkcy5jb20vQHlvdWRvbnRrbm93ZG91Zy9wb3N0L0RLYVJjLS16MGFzL2p1c3QtaGFkLWEtcm91Z2gtbGFuZGluZy1pbnRvLWJ1cmJhbmstYm91bmNpbmctZG93bi10aGUtcnVud2F5LWxpa2UtYS1zdG9uZS1za2lwP3NmbWNfaWQ9NjUyMDZlZmE3MjA0ODYzMDI5MTI4MzI4JnV0bV9pZD00Mzk5NTcxMCZza2V5X2lkPWUyNmNkYWExOTUzZWI1MjQ2Y2RkNzA4MDBhZGU5ZTU0OTIxNjcwMDJhYTUzYWMzNTcyYjhlZTQ1NWY2NjY2YmI/65206efa7204863029128328Bcbbd2fb0>” > throughout the *course of rough landings* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g_dj1yZFk5eVU3by14MCZzZm1jX2lkPTY1MjA2ZWZhNzIwNDg2MzAyOTEyODMyOCZ1dG1faWQ9NDM5OTU3MTAmc2tleV9pZD1lMjZjZGFhMTk1M2ViNTI0NmNkZDcwODAwYWRlOWU1NDkyMTY3MDAyYWE1M2FjMzU3MmI4ZWU0NTVmNjY2NmJi/65206efa7204863029128328B42336c2f> > . > > If only the short runways and bumpy landings were the biggest concern at > the airport. > > Unfortunately, there is now a serious national discussion about the safety > of flying into and out of the Burbank airport that my colleague Grace > Toohey > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGF0aW1lcy5jb20vcGVvcGxlL2dyYWNlLXRvb2hleT9zZm1jX2lkPTY1MjA2ZWZhNzIwNDg2MzAyOTEyODMyOCZ1dG1faWQ9NDM5OTU3MTAmc2tleV9pZD1lMjZjZGFhMTk1M2ViNTI0NmNkZDcwODAwYWRlOWU1NDkyMTY3MDAyYWE1M2FjMzU3MmI4ZWU0NTVmNjY2NmJi/65206efa7204863029128328Bcc99d79f> > and > I have investigated in the last two weeks. > > The controversy started when Jennifer Homendy, National Transportation > Safety Board chair, said last month that “commercial airlines have called > me to say the next midair [collision] is going to be at Burbank and nobody > is paying attention to us.” > > Let’s jump into what she said and why she said it > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGF0aW1lcy5jb20vY2FsaWZvcm5pYS9zdG9yeS8yMDI2LTAyLTA2L2ZlZGVyYWwtb2ZmaWNpYWxzLXdhcm5lZC1vZi1tYWpvci1zYWZldHktY29uY2VybnMtYXQtYnVyYmFua3MtYWlycG9ydC13aGF0LW1ha2VzLXRoaXMtYWlyc3BhY2Utc28tdHJpY2t5P3NmbWNfaWQ9NjUyMDZlZmE3MjA0ODYzMDI5MTI4MzI4JnV0bV9pZD00Mzk5NTcxMCZza2V5X2lkPWUyNmNkYWExOTUzZWI1MjQ2Y2RkNzA4MDBhZGU5ZTU0OTIxNjcwMDJhYTUzYWMzNTcyYjhlZTQ1NWY2NjY2YmI/65206efa7204863029128328B99476dde> > . > Context behind the statement > > Homendy made the comments at a meeting marking the first anniversary of > the midair collision between a jetliner and military helicopter that killed > 67 people in Washington, D.C. > > The agency revealed key findings into the crash of an American Airlines > regional jet and an Army Black Hawk helicopter. > > As Homendy laid out what she called a series of institutional failures by > the Federal Aviation Administration before the January 2025 crash, *she > pointed to concerns about the mixing of commercial airplane and helicopter > traffic* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGF0aW1lcy5jb20vY2FsaWZvcm5pYS9zdG9yeS8yMDI2LTAxLTI3L2hvbGx5d29vZC1idXJiYW5rLWFpcnBvcnQtY291bGQtYmUtYXQtcmlzay1vZi1taWRhaXItY29sbGlzaW9uLXUtcy10cmFuc3BvcnRhdGlvbi1vZmZpY2lhbC1zYXlzP3NmbWNfaWQ9NjUyMDZlZmE3MjA0ODYzMDI5MTI4MzI4JnV0bV9pZD00Mzk5NTcxMCZza2V5X2lkPWUyNmNkYWExOTUzZWI1MjQ2Y2RkNzA4MDBhZGU5ZTU0OTIxNjcwMDJhYTUzYWMzNTcyYjhlZTQ1NWY2NjY2YmI/65206efa7204863029128328B58221e19>, > noting that there are extensive data pointing to the danger of such a mix. > How does Burbank Airport figure into her concerns? > > The airspace over Los Angeles is among the most congested in the world, > but the Hollywood Burbank Airport is uniquely situated in the base of a > valley surrounded by mountains on all sides, creating extremely tight > parameters around the midsize airport. > > Burbank’s main runway is *particularly short* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGF0aW1lcy5jb20vYXJjaGl2ZXMvbGEteHBtLTIwMDAtbWFyLTA2LW1uLTYwMzEtc3RvcnkuaHRtbD9zZm1jX2lkPTY1MjA2ZWZhNzIwNDg2MzAyOTEyODMyOCZ1dG1faWQ9NDM5OTU3MTAmc2tleV9pZD1lMjZjZGFhMTk1M2ViNTI0NmNkZDcwODAwYWRlOWU1NDkyMTY3MDAyYWE1M2FjMzU3MmI4ZWU0NTVmNjY2NmJi/65206efa7204863029128328B3163e089>, > and there is significant, nearby air traffic generated by the *busy Van > Nuys Airport* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZmFhLmdvdi92bnk_c2ZtY19pZD02NTIwNmVmYTcyMDQ4NjMwMjkxMjgzMjgmdXRtX2lkPTQzOTk1NzEwJnNrZXlfaWQ9ZTI2Y2RhYTE5NTNlYjUyNDZjZGQ3MDgwMGFkZTllNTQ5MjE2NzAwMmFhNTNhYzM1NzJiOGVlNDU1ZjY2NjZiYg/65206efa7204863029128328B7ba85390> > — > a general aviation airport just six miles away — leaving little room for > error as pilots prepare to land at Burbank, according to a review of safety > records and interviews with local and national aviators. > > The location of the two airports puts their planes in the same airspace, > with overlapping flight patterns as they land and take off, though they are > supposed to fly at different altitudes. > > Adding to the challenge, the *FAA itself has pointed out,* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZmFhLmdvdi92bnk_c2ZtY19pZD02NTIwNmVmYTcyMDQ4NjMwMjkxMjgzMjgmdXRtX2lkPTQzOTk1NzEwJnNrZXlfaWQ9ZTI2Y2RhYTE5NTNlYjUyNDZjZGQ3MDgwMGFkZTllNTQ5MjE2NzAwMmFhNTNhYzM1NzJiOGVlNDU1ZjY2NjZiYg/65206efa7204863029128328C7ba85390> > is > the fact that Van Nuys — home to several flying schools — has a “wide > variation of pilot experience, and aircraft capability.” > Burbank’s record of near-crashes > > Since 2018, there have been at least 12 near-collisions reported at > Burbank, according to a Times review of reports in the Aviation Safety > Reporting Database, which the website says “captures confidential reports, > analyzes the resulting aviation safety data, and disseminates vital > information to the aviation community.” > > The Times reviewed instances in which those safety reports mentioned an > aircraft’s Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) or a report > of a near midair collision (NMAC). > The FAA responds > > The agency pointed to a recent change that lowered the altitude for Van > Nuys aircraft, increasing clearance between descending Burbank flights and > the smaller planes at Van Nuys. > > “Based [on] our safety analysis, the FAA lowered the Van Nuys traffic > pattern by 200 feet during an evaluation in 2025 to see if that would > reduce conflicts with aircraft landing at Burbank,” the statement read. > “Preliminary data indicated the change resulted in a reduction of Traffic > Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) alerts for Burbank arrivals and we > permanently lowered the Van Nuys traffic pattern effective Jan. 5.” > Pilots’ response has been tepid > > Trent Sanders, who has flown privately for decades from Whiteman Airport > in Pacoima, another noncommercial airport about six miles from Burbank and > Van Nuys, said he’s very aware of the heightened risk between Burbank and > Van Nuys. > > Sanders said he worries the change of 200 feet isn’t drastic enough to > foster significant safety improvements. > > “That’s not much at all,” Sanders said. “You can drift, you’re looking out > the window, you’re looking at your instruments, ... [and] you drift down a > little or drift up.” > > For more on the concern at Burbank Airport, *check out the full article > here* > <https://link.latimes.com/click/43995710.11824/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGF0aW1lcy5jb20vY2FsaWZvcm5pYS9zdG9yeS8yMDI2LTAyLTA2L2ZlZGVyYWwtb2ZmaWNpYWxzLXdhcm5lZC1vZi1tYWpvci1zYWZldHktY29uY2VybnMtYXQtYnVyYmFua3MtYWlycG9ydC13aGF0LW1ha2VzLXRoaXMtYWlyc3BhY2Utc28tdHJpY2t5P3NmbWNfaWQ9NjUyMDZlZmE3MjA0ODYzMDI5MTI4MzI4JnV0bV9pZD00Mzk5NTcxMCZza2V5X2lkPWUyNmNkYWExOTUzZWI1MjQ2Y2RkNzA4MDBhZGU5ZTU0OTIxNjcwMDJhYTUzYWMzNTcyYjhlZTQ1NWY2NjY2YmI/65206efa7204863029128328C99476dde> > . > The wee > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > privilege--not a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > [email protected] > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > [email protected] > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. See instructions at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=help > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > privilege--not a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > [email protected] > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > [email protected] > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. See instructions at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=help > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > -- Cheers Jim Loos
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