| It takes an interested and receptive group of listeners, Amar.
Can lead a horse to water, but canāt make it drink, etc. ļ»æ Hello All,
Appears to me that Mike B and Bob M have the opportunity to inject themselves into the design phase of BNATCS in order to ensure that operators can in real-time share their desired operational adjustments, that only they know, so that the BNATCS can manage based on real-time inputs, rather than relying upon models that do not reflect operational realities.
Clearly the BNATCS should have the architecture to accept these reran-time perturbations/changes to plans, to accommodate the operatorsā changing needs, and equitably share NAS resources across all operators.
All the best, Amar
_________________________
Sincerely,
Amarnath S Murthy
+1-817-332-0700 [USA Office and WhatsApp]
+1-817-726-5500 [USA Mobile]
LinkedIn: AmarMurthy
Jack,
A4A is fully supportive of BNATCS and makes statements often, both written press materials and speeches, and on panels at events.
DOT Secretary Sean Duffy leads the administration's efforts on promoting the progress and benefits of BNATCS. He posts almost daily about it on various social media, sometimes multiple times a day. FAA does plenty too. I suggest following those accounts on social.
-Doug
Where is A4A in all this.i fault the airline group and I also fault the FAA for not doing more to give details and selling this innovation. Keady
On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 7:55, RWM via Mifnet
Doug, It is possible that BNATCS could benefit FAA (it will clearly
benefit its chosen vendors), but my point is that BNATCS as
presently formulated, using the Administrator's own description,
leaves most of the operational, efficiency, financial, and
reliability benefits to FAA, controllers, airlines and their
constituencies unharvested, on the table. That is the shame of the matter. - Bob Mann
On 3/11/2026 10:34 AM, Doug Church
wrote:
Kind of amazing - and disappointing - that only
three of us (me, Bob, Michael) are discussing the issue of the
proposal of the single most transformational modernization of
our National Airspace System in our entire lifetimes.
Where are the rest of you, Mifnet? Anyone else want to
offer thoughts? There cannot just be three of us talking about
this out of a vast audience of Mifnet
participants/subscribers? Right? Am I the only one who sees
the positives of what BNATCS can do? Am I the only one sick
and tired of the unacceptable status quo of crappy outdated
equipment, unoptimized airspace, and zero modernization being
allowed to continue in this NAS while the rest of the world
passes us by and we lose our standing as the gold standard of
ATC?
As for Bob and Michael: If you're just going to say no to
everything, predict failure for any DOT/FAA modernization
attempts, and hold out for the airlines to finally do what
you're asking them to do - well, OK then. I wish you well.
-Doug
That could benefit FAA, but leaves most of the
benefits to FAA, controllers, airlines and their
constituencies unharvested, on the table.
A āmore preciseā FAA trombone slide of delays is not
the best outcome FAA or airlines could achieve, on their
own behalf, as well as for their customers, investors, and
employees.
Other examples of FAA āmore preciseā include
āmetropolitan airspace realignmentā and RNP procedures
that demonstrably add FAA waypoints, flying minutes and
fuel burn ā the antithesis of what was promoted as
āimprovementsā.
Be careful what you ask for, lest you get it. Be
careful what you leave on the table, too.
- Bob Mann
ļ»æ
RE:
"The fact is that there is no way that FAA
can make an airline efficient, let alone a
single aircraft. Airlines can, ATC canāt."
Well,
Michael, we may have found something we
can agree on in this discussion.
But the
FAA can make the airspace efficient.
BNATCS is about expanding the capacity of
the airspace to accommodate increased
future traffic demands and new entrants.
Bedford wants separation tightened up. He
said it himself yesterday: "If we want
to create more capacity, reducing
separation standards and going to
trajectory flying is the only way to do
that. We need to go from imprecise to
precise.ā
-Doug
Doug,
The source is me. But also,
Bedford said it himself, āWeāll
tell you where we want you ā¦
and weāll tell you where we
want you to be to hit that top
of descentā. These should
and must be airline/user
decisions.
Next, show me in the BNATCS plan
how each airline/user inputs
their business goals for each
individual aircraft or how
individual pilots are allowed to
manage their arrival time
enroute?
The fact is that there is no way
that FAA can make an airline
efficient, let alone a single
aircraft. Airlines can, ATC
canāt.
Finally, remember, as Captain Tom
Hendricls said (Confessions
of an Attilaā¢ Doubter), āItās
Not About You ā¦ Itās About an
Aircraft You Donāt See (Or
Hear) ... What is transparent
to a crew faced with
situations like these is the
recovery of unused slots in
the queue that might be
fifteen aircraft ahead of or
behind you (and possibly on a
different frequency)ā.
Michael xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx R. Michael Baiada cell - (303) 521-6047 [email protected]
Re: āBNATCS
also continues to leave out
the airlines/users and
pilots.ā
Doug,
Yes, airlines are onboard with
BNATCS without
thinking through the
implications.
While BNATCS is great for
equipment replacement
(which is needed),
BNATCS will further
institutionalize ATCās
control over the
movement of the
airlineās/userās
aircraft, which will
haunt the airline/user
āday ofā
operation for decades
to come. With BNATCS,
airlines can forget
about any chance of
airline āday ofā
Operational
Excellence.
āAdministrator Bedford comes
straight from
running an airlineā
is not an attribute,
because Bedford is
unnecessarily
continuing the
airlineās 1980s āATC
controls everything
and ATC is the only
answerā
mentality that costs
individual large
airlines over $5
Billion annually. We
need new thinking.
BNATCS also continues to leave
out the airlines/users
and pilots, which will
continue ATCās
unnecessarily high
costs across aviation.
I recently did a
comparison of an
Airline Centric Flow
Manage versus the ATC
Flow Manage (TBFM)
that might be of
interest (Airline Centric vs. ATC Centric
Flow Manager, 2025-02).
As I said, airlines/users need to
speak up and tell ATC
what they want,
instead of simply
accepting.
Finally, there is an FAA
validated solution
that reduces costs
(FAA and airlines),
reduces delays,
improves runway
throughput, etc. The
only downside is that
this is not what ATC
and airlines have done
for the last 50 years.
Oh wait, there is no
downside.
Benefits of Systems Thinking
<image001.png>
Costs of Current Thinking
<image002.png>
Michael xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx R. Michael Baiada cell - (303) 521-6047 [email protected]
I
am afraid I donāt
really understand what
youāre saying here,
nor do I understand
why you are dooming
BNATCS to failure
before it even gets
going.
The
airlines are fully
onboard with BNATCS
because it will
increase reliability
and predictability and
reduce delays.
Administrator Bedford
comes straight from
running an airline.
This plan for airspace
optimization and
trajectory based ops
will address precisely
what you and Michael
are advocating for.
āāWeāll
tell you where
we want you to
be in three
dimensions ā¦
and weāll tell
you where we
want you to be
to hit that
top of descent
mark to [meet]
the
constraints of
the runway,
not the
airspace
itself,ā said
Bedford in
recent remarks
at the Aero
Club of
Washington.ā
Doug,
These RTAs are continuous system optimization calls
(and they are
in 4
dimensions,
not 3) best
made by
airlines,
using their
own real time
information,
for their own
accounts,
individually,
or shipped to
and
honest-brokered
by FAA in the
most complex
multi-carrier
airspace,
enroute and
terminal,
airborne and
surface.
FAA does not have, nor does it propose to acquire and
use airlinesā
real-time
resource
information,
business
objectives and
constraints,
in order to
system
optimize and
improve
airline,
customer,
employee and
investor
outcomes.
Attempting to resolve the root cause drivers of the
need for ATC
intervention,
infrastructure, and staffing without considering real time airline
resource
status,
business
objectives and
constraints is
among the
easily
foreseeable
reasons why
BNATCS will be
yet another
expensive,
late, failure
out of the
gate, and fail
to resolve
airline
delays.
āWeāll tell you where we want you to be in three
dimensions ā¦
and weāll tell
you where we
want you to be
to hit that
top of descent
mark to [meet]
the
constraints of
the runway,
not the
airspace
itself,ā said
Bedford in
recent remarks
at the Aero
Club of
Washington.
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