Expectations of disagreement make a very lonely life, Molly. -  I'm
positive that the successful time for U.S. writers is soon to come.
Good luck!

On 8 Jan., 13:31, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
wrote:
> There are quite a number of factors that effect longevity and prohibit
> a discussion in the generalities presented here.  Poverty, war,
> industrial pollutants - even say, the lead used in the aqueduct system
> of ancient Rome, would all effect longevity.  So, we can both talk
> crap until gabby's cow comes home, but I doubt it would lend anything
> remotely interesting to the conversation, unless of course, you get
> your jollies from talking crap.
>
> Here in the 21st century, if we are fortunate enough to live in a
> society that is relatively free of toxins, has an adequate food and
> water supply, provides a level of education that allows development of
> intellect and choices for health care that allow for medical support
> in times of birth, death and medical crisis - we have the basic tools
> we need for health and can expect to live about 80 years now, less for
> men and barring an unforseen accident.  I haven't seen any data to
> convince me that, given the same advantages, people in the year 1000
> or 1500 might not have the same expectancy.  Problem is, very few
> people had these advantages back then.  I don't think that we can look
> at statistics that cover entire populations and averages, without
> looking at the living conditions cultural resources also.
>
> My point is, manipulating DNA to prevent illness is like taking a pill
> because an uncomfortable symptom is occuring without knowing
> definitively the nature of the illness.  Too much of that goes on now,
> and is counterproductive to health.  I think we are quick to jump the
> gun and take something and would be better off in most cases, allowing
> the body to heal itself, which it is designed to do.  I am not saying
> that all medicine has no value (it seems to me this is what you
> heard.)  I am glad for the wonderful advances to medicine in the past
> century, marvel at the images we can see of a fetus in the womb, see
> arthroscopic and laser surgery as welcome alternatives,  love the
> little cameras that can be fed into us to allow internal imaging.  But
> I do think that here in the US, testing is over used and
> pharmaceuticals are over prescribed.  My opinion.  I expect to
> disagree with anyone who believes in taking lots of them.  That's OK
> with me.
>
> On Jan 8, 6:46 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 7, 11:01 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "Self regulation is a myth. Before modern medicine people would just
> > > bloody die of the most simple thing.:
>
> > > This might have been true in England.  But there are cultures
> > > throughout the world that proved longevity through diet and natural
> > > medicine.  The Egyptians were said to have often lived over a century,
> > > at least those who did not die in servitude or the military.
>
> > I am sorry but you are talking utter crap.
> > From Archaeology typical figures for longevity rarely exceed a 45 year
> > average.
>
> > > On Jan 7, 2:22 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > This seems to me to be the typical anti-science model that is
> > > > pervading our "alternative" consciousness. It is unfortunate and
> > > > dangerous as most proponents choose to ignore the massive advances
> > > > that have been made and would throw the baby out with the bath-water.
> > > > This has led to an increase in some diseases that were sorted because
> > > > people have been failing to participate in inoculation programmes.
>
> > > > On Jan 7, 2:39 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > I think this is just a longer extension of the old, broken medical
> > > > > model - we have to "do" something (take something, manipulate
> > > > > something, remove something, add a device to the body) every time we
> > > > > are uncomfortable with the way it is performing.  The body heals
> > > > > itself naturally and often has what is sometimes referred to as
> > > > > "healing crisis" which can appear to be "illness" but is, instead, the
> > > > > natural function of the bodies adaptation and change function.  By
> > > > > traumatizing the body with a medical interruption to this process
> > > > > instead of allowing the body its natural healing cycles, we delay or
> > > > > destroy the healing.  I am not talking about mending a broken bone or
> > > > > life saving measures (although some of what is considered life saving
> > > > > I find questionable.)  Take the bacterial strep pneumonia, a bacteria
> > > > > found everywhere that lives dormant in everyone.  Occasionally, and we
> > > > > don't know why, it takes over the body and in a very short time can be
> > > > > fatal.  Yet we live peacefully with it in most cases.
>
> > > > > I don't think we understand enough about the true nature of illness to
> > > > > start changing our DNA to stop it.  Our current model of illness
> > > > > intervention (pharmaceuticals and surgeries) has prolonged life but
> > > > > the quality of that life is questionable and it is highly doubtful
> > > > > that it makes us any healthier overall.  In fact, quite the opposite.
> > > > > The healthiest people I know are the ones that take no pills on a
> > > > > daily basis.  The unhealthiest are the ones (and there are MANY) that
> > > > > take handfuls each day.  
>
> > > > You are mistaking cause and effect.  Unhealthy people need the pills
> > > > because they are unhealthy. Old people get to a stage when pills are
> > > > what keep them going. When I say old I mean 40+. Life expectancy has
> > > > massively increased with the advent of modern medicine.
> > > > I am now 48.
> > > > I get gout (hereditry), for which I can choose to take allapurinol OR,
> > > > my choice, avoid protien rich food. I have managed to avoid the drug
> > > > by taking care of my diet. But however careful I am the number of
> > > > attacks is getting more frequent.
> > > > I also have a gall stone. To avoid liver pain I have to keep my fat
> > > > intake to a minimum. This I do with some success.
> > > > I also have acid reflux. This is caused by a diet with too much
> > > > carbohydrate.
> > > > I think you can see where this is going.
> > > > I can't survive on boiled cabbage and lettuce. So I treat the acid
> > > > with Lansoprazole and seem to be doing okay.
> > > > Getting cancer fucked up this carefully conceived and balanced
> > > > strategy.
>
> > > > Currently, our medical model catches people
>
> > > > > as soon as they begin to use the system - antibiotics to treat colds,
> > > > > if the lungs are wheezing, prescribe an inhaler,
>
> > > > As there is no other alternative to Asthma, I think the inhaler route
> > > > is great. I have one at hand at all times.
>
> > > >  a mild heart
>
> > > > > palpitation, heart medication, anxiety, anti anxiety pills...  on and
> > > > > on until the body is completely out of balance and not able to self
> > > > > regulate.
>
> > > > Self regulation is a myth. Before modern medicine people would just
> > > > bloody die of the most simple thing. Evolution has not equipped us
> > > > well enough. In a natural environment child mortality is massive, and
> > > > longevity is much shorter.
> > > > In H/g societies during the Palaeolithic life expectancy was around 40
> > > > years.
>
> > > > > Our DNA has a natural evolution of change that allows our conscious
> > > > > evolution.  Because we have the science to manipulate it doesn't mean
> > > > > it is always beneficial for us to do so.
>
> > > > But it is mostly.
>
> > > > > On Jan 6, 11:36 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > We've known for a long time that our antibody-forming system adapts
> > > > > > itself to every microbe we encounter.  What we didn't understand 
> > > > > > fully
> > > > > > is exactly how this happens. Now that we know, we can begin to find
> > > > > > ways to manipulate this process so illnesses can be prevented or 
> > > > > > made
> > > > > > significantly less dangerous.
>
> > > > > > When the body encounters a foreign invader, like a virus or 
> > > > > > bacterium,
> > > > > > it immediately begins to find a way to neutralize it by means of
> > > > > > cellular or antibody-mediated defenses. Part of the process involves
> > > > > > tailoring the genes that code for antibodies to specific viruses or
> > > > > > bacteria. Researchers have known that this involves two types of
> > > > > > genetic manipulation. One type changes a single gene at a time, and
> > > > > > the other type changes multiple genes at the same time.  Multiple
> > > > > > genes can be modified simultaneously to make the "evolutionary leap"
> > > > > > necessary to stave off infection. You treat DNA responsible for 
> > > > > > making
> > > > > > antibody molecules with an enzyme, called activation-induced
> > > > > > deaminase, while the DNA copies RNA polymerase. Like a scanner, RNA
> > > > > > polymerase moves across the DNA to copy it. When this scanning 
> > > > > > process
> > > > > > moves smoothly, there were either single mutations or no mutations.
> > > > > > We can now stall the RNA polymerase (under certain conditions) as it
> > > > > > "scans",  causing cluster mutations in the DNA, adapting our
> > > > > > antibodies for a rapid and effective response to a new microbial
> > > > > > invader.  Germs are mutating all over the place - we can now "plan"
> > > > > > mutations of our own to save us as global warming makes infectious
> > > > > > diseases one the biggest threats to human survival.  Personally, I
> > > > > > would rather leap into a new form of existence much more sensible 
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > the human one,  No work seems to being done on this.
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