In fact, it is more likely that a minority will oppress a majority than that a majority will oppress a minority. Tyranny of the minority is at least as much a fear as tyranny of the majority.
On Jan 16, 12:23 pm, "willy minnen" <[email protected]> wrote: > Even when every man has a vote, a minority can oppress a majority. That > lasted in my state for a hundred years. From 1830 till 1930 the Flemish were > oppressed by the frenchspeaking. Both languages just got equal rights in > 1932. > Every person has a free mind, a free opinion, but masses are manipulated, > not considering if the leaders are right or wrong. > Just charismatic persons: Nelson Mandela, etc. can break this almost > automatism. > Love and peace. Willy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nominal9 > To: "Minds Eye" > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 7:51 PM > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza > > One person.... one vote..... Israel, West Bank and Gaza (not even > counting Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Jordan or other places), > all together...... who wins the elections, the Jews or the > Muslims? ...... White South Africa under apartheid was called > Democratic.... but the "homelands" got no votes..... > nominal9. > > On Jan 15, 12:50 am, "Chris Jenkins" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Correction, "There almost 1.5 Million Arab-Israelis, almost twice the > ratio > > of Arabic Israelis to Jew Israelis as there are Caucasian Americans to > > African Americans" obviously should be twice the ratio of African > Americans > > to Caucasian Americans. > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Chris Jenkins > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > The post would agree with your first link, perhaps even moreso: > > >http://exilestreet.com/?p=670 > > > > I don't think an extended exposition of the history of the region > really > > > converts any opinions, and it does always tend to devolve into hair > > > splitting and excruciating examination of citation and bias filter, > which is > > > why the topic is a hand grenade. > > > > With that stated, understanding that no conversions will occur, and > thus, > > > none should be attempted by inflamed or incensed respondents, and that > > > should flame wars begin, appropriate measures will be taken to > extinguish > > > them, I'll offer my opinion, disclaimed as solely that, and > acknowledged as > > > pretty solidly unchangeable based on my research and understanding: > > > > 1. The Jews in Israel are indeed a mixture of a continuous population > of > > > Jews who have been there the entire time, and immigrants who have > traveled > > > back to the region during the first and second Aliyahs. It is often > argued > > > as a point of contention that these Jews are not descendants of the > original > > > Jews of Israel. This is unsupported by their genetic makeup. The Jews > of the > > > diaspora are indeed the descendants of the Israelites driven out of > that > > > land, and carry a cultural identity tied to the land of Israel. > > > >http://www.pnas.org/content/97/12/6769.abstract > > > > "The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of > Jewish > > > communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended > from a > > > common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most > Jewish > > > communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring > non-Jewish > > > communities during and after the Diaspora." > > > > 2. During the the first Aliyah, it was a rare exception for there to > be an > > > issue between the returning Jews and their Arabic neighbors. Land was > bought > > > legally by the immigrants, and the Arabic workers in the area were > often > > > hired on at fair wage to work the area. Although there were some > conflicts > > > in those arrangements, those were isolated cases which were no more > common > > > than in any other segment of society. There is no record of any sort > of > > > "Zionist apartheid" at play, merely a legal immigration of Jews to > their > > > cultural homeland, ahead of European persecution. The foundation of > the > > > Muslim Brotherhood occurred during this time, essentially an Arabic > version > > > of the KKK, which resented the sudden increase in wealthy Jewish > population, > > > and began raising popular ire against the moneyed interlopers. This > shift in > > > the social consciousness began to result in violence, straining the > British > > > control of the mandate, which had been contemplating both granting the > > > Jewish people autonomous space, and returning control of the > Palestinian > > > Mandate to the mixed population of Syrian, Jordanian, Egyptian, and > Lebanese > > > peoples who had populated the area. As the ambiguity of the British > > > governance began to become clear, these hate groups began to cause > riots, > > > first in 1921, and then in a series of skirmishes and attacks > culminating > > > with slaughters in Sapphed and Hebron, a town which had held an > indigenous > > > Jewish population since the time of Christ. Lacking any effective > protection > > > against these attacks, and treated with ambivalence by the British, > > > factions formed within the Jewish settlers including the Stern Gang, > Irgun, > > > and Haganah. > > > > This is when it stopped being black and white. All three of these > groups, > > > at one point or another, engaged in acts, which according to our > > > understanding of the word, constitute terrorism. Deir Yassan signaled > the > > > end of a true Israeli moral high ground. Not that it's not higher than > > > Hamas, but that's when it began to crumble. > > > > In 1947, when the UN Resolution made it official, the surrounding > nations > > > immediately banded together, spawning Israel's war for Independence. > Every > > > man with a gun immediately was pressed into service. Groups already > well > > > armed and trained in combat were particularly useful. In this manner > were > > > these three groups legitimized. > > > > 3. The Palestinian Leadership is in shambles, its ranks corrupt, its > house > > > divided between impotent bureaucrats and cowardly madmen armed with > suicidal > > > devotees who line up their people like sheep for the slaughter, in > order to > > > capture the attention of the world media. Yassir Arafat won the Nobel > Peace > > > Prize after founding Fatah and being declared the "Leader of the > Palestinian > > > People" in 1967, after sneaking into the West Bank to setup recruiting > > > stations for fresh terrorist bombers and hijackers. He engineered > attack > > > after attack around the world until his death, all the while sitting > with > > > world leaders, proclaiming his lack of connection to those events, and > > > "negotiating for peace". The new breed there goes one step further, > > > manipulating the media with much more finesse, drawing fire into > civilian > > > areas, and using complicit local media to create the shots they want > > > broadcast to a global media hungry to root for the underdog. > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys > > > > 4. Someone suggested recently what I think is a terribly good idea. > Fold > > > Gaza under Egyptian protection, and the West Bank under Jordanian > > > protection. That will instantly provide infrastructure, security, > economy, > > > trade, medicine, education, government, law enforcement, food, power, > water, > > > and existing treaties Israel which are rock solid. It will also > completely > > > remove the corrupt government of extremists there. In fact, the only > loss at > > > all is a haphazard and ever shifting gang of thugs who resolves issues > of > > > government loyalty with ad hoc executions: > > > > WARNING: NSFW and graphic - Hamas grabbing Fatah members and summarily > > > executing them. Filmed by Hamas members. > > >http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cec_1181855341 > > > > There almost 1.5 Million Arab-Israelis, almost twice the ratio of > Arabic > > > Israelis to Jew Israelis as there are Caucasian Americans to African > > > Americans, an apt comparison, given some of the terms I hear being > thrown > > > around describing the circumstances there. Arab-Israelis are free to > move to > > > the Palestinian territories any time they like. They do not. Nor do > they > > > riot in the streets in protest of Israel's actions, rise up in some > never > > > ending flood of condemning human judgement. There is no 'V for > Vendetta' > > > moment in Israel where 1.5 Million Arab-Israelis show up with masks > on. For > > > all the propaganda you may hear, and for all their verbal loyalty, an > > > Arab-Israeli, much like an Arab-American, has a far better quality of > life > > > than the average Arab in any country controlled by extremists. > Arab-Israelis > > > are also at risk when missiles are fired in Sderot, and if the longer > range > > > rockets come, into Tel Aviv. Israeli-Arabs will lose that quality of > life if > > > Hamas and Hezbollah win, and they do not want that. > > > > Selfishness, as mentioned in the other thread, is also an indicator of > > > truth. Fear will overcome selfishness, but when you have the IDF > fighting > > > your fears for you, selfishness can reassert. 1.5 Million > Arab-Israelis. How > > > many are rioting in the streets? > > > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:53 AM, frantheman > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> Ok, I'm probably being hopelessly optimistic. I take Chris's > tongue-in- > > >> cheek warning about forum grenades seriously - and the Arab-Israeli > > >> issue IS a grenade - an atomic grenade! > > > >> I see and recognise the validity of the arguments from both sides. > I'd > > >> like to read some of what the people who post here (whose opinions > and > > >> intellects I really respect) think. I do have one request - if anyone > > >> feels the urge to flame on the usual themes of holocaust denial, the > > >> Jews are responsible for everything wrong with the world, etc., > please > > >> do it somewhere else. > > > >> I'm posting this link (even though I > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
