On Jan 22, 8:55 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'd have to concur (minus the full of shit, part, mind you..) ;)
Sorry thought I was writing on alt.philosophy for a moment there.
> The Pasteur Institute wouldn't mind at all if US research disappeared
> entirely...nor would the Svensk Institute, or any of the rest of the
> Biomedical research facilities in the world. Craig, I hate to say it, but
> your colonialism is showing. We are far from world leaders in innovations in
> science, a fact noted by the incoming president, who has made it a goal to
> return us there. What do we have that compares to CERN, for instance?
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:35 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 22, 12:45 am, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > So Chris, your saying the problem with the world isn't too much
> > > government but too little government? I'd have to disagree with you
> > > there.
>
> > > I think the flaw in your reasoning is that you assume if something
> > > exists everyone is entitled to it. Brain, heart, and lung transplants
> > > may either be possible, or in the future possible, but they are modern
> > > marvels. No one is entitled to these things. The procedures take a
> > > lot of money, time, and expenses to research and implement. People
> > > put their heart and soul into such ventures because they believe that
> > > it will mean a big pay check in their futures. Not everyone is going
> > > to be able to afford a heart transplant. The most obvious reason is
> > > not everyone can afford one. Not to mention their aren't enough spare
> > > hearts lying around.
>
> > > The countries who have tried to implement socialism have ended up with
> > > countries that cannot keep up with those who have not. The only
> > > reason that medicine had continued to advance in today's modern
> > > society is because America is still relatively capitalistic. We will
> > > pay the big bucks for the research and procedures and so people still
> > > keep working to make it happen. But if we adopt medical care like
> > > Canada's and England's, I think you can kiss credible medical research
> > > goodbye.
>
> > Full of shit! The vast majority of medical innovation has come from
> > Europe. The USA is restricted by its obsession with money making.
> > Most medical innovation requires funding for pure science and
> > uneconomic investigation and procedures. You are blighted by a typical
> > American blinkered view of the world which assumes that the USA is
> > better than everyone else. Truth is it aint.
>
> > > And Education in our society is already socialist. How are you going
> > > to make it more Socialist? My contention is that the problem with our
> > > education today is precisely because its Socialist. If we privatized
> > > education, made the institutions compete, made the teachers compete,
> > > then our educational system would be much more competitive.
>
> > If you abandoned publicly funded eduction within one generation all
> > the skilled work (what is left of it) would continue to go abroad to
> > countries with people who know how to read and write. The USA would
> > become a banana republic in a 30 years.
>
> > > On Jan 21, 2:25 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 4:17 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 20, 7:16 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > I've always had trouble with "capitalism" - the word hardly appears
> > in
> > > > > > Marx and I've never seen any satisfactory definitions of it as a
> > > > > > phenomena.
>
> > > > > As a phenomenon it is highly misunderstood and applied for dubious
> > > > > political purposes. On another Newsgroup I was shocked to see this
> > > > > statement in response to my accusation that the writer had no idea
> > > > > what socialism was except as a thing to be destroyed to protect us
> > all
> > > > > from evil.
> > > > > "I take socialism to be the opposite of capitalism. Capitalism is a
> > > > > social system based on respect for individual liberty. Socialism is
> > a
> > > > > social system based on lack of respect for individual liberty. "
> > > > > (I shit you not!)
> > > > > This is unbelievable that anyone could have such a stilted view
> > point.
> > > > > Capitalism is not a social system, but a description of an economic
> > > > > process.
>
> > > > It all started when we were taught about the United Soviet SOCIALIST
> > > > Republic, AKA The Dirty Commies... ;)
>
> > > > As someone who's lived both here, and in many Socialist countries, I
> > think
> > > > we could use a healthy dash of Socialism at home, particularly in the
> > areas
> > > > of Education and Healthcare.
>
> > > > > Performance targets? Tracking? Key Skills? Transferable Skills? CPD?
> > > > > Evidence based performance related target? BS? Mangement Speak?
>
> > > > I believe I can create some effective 3-6 month trending reports which
> > will
> > > > help visualize the KPI in question. The data is indisputable. Metrics
> > don't
> > > > lie.
>
> > > > Of course, the people presenting them do...
>
> > > > > People still
> > > > > > managing express concerns that honesty is long gone, but do this
> > > > > > quietly because they fear talking of it is career suicide. I
> > wonder
> > > > > > if we have confused "capitalism" with some desire to be free of
> > power-
>
> > > > > (See above!)
>
> > > > > > freaks and somehow let it into our lives in ways we should have
> > > > > > resisted? Everyone is admitting in private (questionnaires etc.)
> > that
> > > > > > they are routinely lying - I actually find some very confused
> > people
> > > > > > in my practical examinations of organisations - and would like to
> > > > > > establish why I feel this is worse now than ever before in my life.
> > I
> > > > > > got used to lies as a cop, but this current stuff is something
> > else,
> > > > > > more like a disease.
> > > > > > It's pretty obvious that Enron was the key model underlying
> > > > > > "capitalist" activity. In a similar sense Baby P is probably not
> > an
> > > > > > exception but the rule. Lying connects activity in public and
> > private
> > > > > > sectors, along with brazen denials that anything is going wrong.
> > Our
> > > > > > bwankers have clearly been sitting on top of one hell of a barrel
> > of
> > > > > > stealing that dwarfs Enron.
> > > > > > I haven't heard the world stop as all this money drops from sight
> > > > > > under the magician's cape. I wonder if we could start again
> > without
> > > > > > these parasites?
>
> > > > > Yes there is a place called Utopia. Get your one way tickets!
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