>From 1968 till 1974 I worked in a bank! A small hypothecary society that became a big bank at once. Together with a friend I wrote a novel about everything going wrong inside. We just changed names. We sold it in front of the bank in the center of Antwerp, the biggest shopping-street we have. It became a local best-seller. The bank even did not fire us for it. I had to quit it myself and became a chief-accountant in a transportfirm. You always loved the harbour, you know. What I learned in the bank about (Marxist or not, even Keynesian) economy is that money never could be a product. It is just a handy tool for trade. The mess banks create in the finance of families is their stupid idea that money is a product. The most serious, about the Middle East, everything goes as the Israelian government wants it, call them hawks or just cool murderers, that changes nothing at the genicide since 1946. Me too, I fear the only change that can occur in the Palestinian camp will be a radicalisation. Because, no Palestine leader is able to change the situation and the israelian government is not willing to change it, the solution has to come from outside. Maybe Obama is the only one who has enough influence on both to bring them together at a table. If not both camps are tending to extremism, not only the Palestine camp. lOve and peace. Willy. ----- Original Message ----- From: archytas To: "Minds Eye" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:43 PM Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza
It seems worth posting this from the same article. Middle East observers wonder whether Israel’s assault on Hamas will succeed in destroying the organisation or expelling it from Gaza. This is an irrelevant question. If Israel plans to keep control over any future Palestinian entity, it will never find a Palestinian partner, and even if it succeeds in dismantling Hamas, the movement will in time be replaced by a far more radical Palestinian opposition. If Barack Obama picks a seasoned Middle East envoy who clings to the idea that outsiders should not present their own proposals for a just and sustainable peace agreement, much less press the parties to accept it, but instead leave them to work out their differences, he will assure a future Palestinian resistance far more extreme than Hamas – one likely to be allied with al-Qaida. For the US, Europe and most of the rest of the world, this would be the worst possible outcome. Perhaps some Israelis, including the settler leadership, believe it would serve their purposes, since it would provide the government with a compelling pretext to hold on to all of Palestine. But this is a delusion that would bring about the end of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. On identity Willy, I tend to find the ones on offer not worth a light, but know I have been missing fellowship - in the past I did this through idiot sport, but professionalisation-businessifcation have destroyed this possibility. I had to be too fit to be a hippy, but was not above the odd half-time toke to ease the pain of seeking winning match fees. Perhaps we should form the Allied Hippy Bank - we'll lose money like the rest but supply genuine solace to our customers! On 23 Jan, 12:24, "willy minnen" <[email protected]> wrote: > Change is the first thing we were crying for since the movements of the > sixties. And so few things changed during my life. I hope Obama can put some > pressure on the Israeli government. But the most important change will be in > the hearts of the people. I have a lot of Scottish friends. We understand > each other because they knew the same oppression as the Flemish in Belgium. > As my father was Greek, I know the same doubts about my own identity. > Love and peace. Willy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: archytas > To: "Minds Eye" > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:27 AM > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza > > My daughter is in Israel and complains our media is biased against the > truth. Yet what the Israelis have done (yet again) in Gaza seems > unforgivable. It's obviously very easy to take sides in this dispute, > yet clearly what is needed is an all sides position and arbitration. > Fair arbitration is, of course, almost utterly compromised across our > societies. Part of my family was hounded from Scotland in the 1800s > and subject to sufficient persecution for there to have been several > name changes. Another part of the family were Jewish - more name > changes. I still see Eastern Europeans still traumatised by WW2 > events. My guess is we need bigger changes to solve the misery around > the world. > > On 23 Jan, 07:15, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > I get your point and come to think of it my sister in-law's father is > > a holocaust survivor and his outlook on life is quite different from > > the many Jewish people I've ever known. Understandably, something was > > seriously ingrained within his psyche that has never been resolved and > > remains repressed. Similarly there are those in the black community > > who remain detached and again this is understandable after all the > > years of suffering. As long as I personally project good intentions > > to everyone I come in contact with, there is nothing to fear and the > > projections actually put others in a less apprehensive state of mind. > > Once fear is gone, good times follow. I can only imagine what it would > > be like to live in fear of persecution due to my ethnicity. I only > > hope that someday humanity can overcome, and we can all live in > > peaceful bliss. > > > On Jan 22, 6:24 pm, "willy minnen" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > That's what I try to tell you all, Slip. Our experiences with them are > > > different in several parts of the world. Here in Antwerp, the diamond > > > center, they are different from other countries. Most of the decedents > of > > > the people that lived here before WWII settled somewhere else. The > ones who > > > are here now come mostly from Israel, East-Europe and even the USA. > They > > > refuse to have any contact with us and stay just a certain time. > > > An example of the difference with other foreigners. The house of a > family > > > that lived in the suburb where I was born staid empty for several > years. The > > > members who survived the war settled in Israel. That's their right. > But now > > > it comes. The house was claimed by other Jews and they got it. > > > Can you imagine a Maroccan claiming the house left behind by another > > > Maroccan in the name of Allah and getting it? That's what upsets me > here. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Slip Disc > > > To: "Minds Eye" > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:28 AM > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza > > > > Vats the matzah with "You People"!! > > > > Don't forget the Prune Jews Fran, they are the toughest bunch and will > > > knock the crap out of you! lol > > > > I grew up around and with many Jewish people in and around NY, never > > > had a problem, never had any experiences of violence. > > > I don't think Jews in the US suffer from the fears that Israeli Jews > > > do. > > > > All I can remember is the hospitality and the great food, mmm Gefilte > > > Fish, a warm Bialy, Bagels and Lox. This summer I will dine to my > > > hearts content at my favorite Jewish Deli. > > > > I wish I had a real Jewish Knishe right now! Really! > > > > I think one of the biggest problems in the world is "overly serious > > > people". > > > > Why can't we all just dance together in harmonious balance? > > > > Shalom! > > > > On Jan 22, 1:06 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 22 Jan., 19:29, "willy minnen" > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote:> Thanks, gruff, even here it is dangerous to talk about them > the > > > same way as > > > > > about others. > > > > > "them" ... This is a basic part of the problem and one of the roots > of > > > > anti-semitism, even if we are mostly unconscious of it. There is no > > > > "them". There are orthodox Jews, secular Jews, atheistic Jews, Jews > > > > who support everything Israel does, Jews who don't. There is the > state > > > > of Israel, which is a jewish state, whose doings and being-done-tos > > > > are significant to those who live there and Jews all over the > > > > world ... but which is, nevertheless, a particular problem. > > > > > I am a non-German, living in Germany. Even here, where the horror of > > > > the holocaust is consciously, chosenly, rightly present, as a > > > > responsibility to the past, present and future (incidentally, making > > > > the relationship between Germans and Jews endlessly uncomfortable > and > > > > the theme of Israel and its actions continually complex), I still > > > > experience this "them" oozing out of the unconscious Christian/ > > > > European rooted tradition. "They" are different. And the different > is > > > > strange, somehow untrustworthy. > > > > > We have to move beyond "them". > > > > > Francis --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
