....sure wish I could keep up neil....i'm at a loss as to what fables
you discuss...

On Mar 5, 2:34 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just an incidental Orn - your scientific view (no qualms on my
> interpretation here) is rather postmodern - on close scrutiny most
> religious sagas become myths and fables - yet the myths and fables
> themselves are part of a real history in the present.  This seems
> entirely sensible.  It is statements of the fables as fact that
> remains problematic, especially in legitimation through this in such
> matters as shooting up cricket players or the more hidden forms in
> Western foreign policy.
>
> On 2 Mar, 09:17, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Degeneration into an epistemology demanding linguistic acumen is very
> > pertinent Orn.  I tend to lapse back to an anecdote involving Ron Ions
> > - paper illiterate and innumerate - yet by far the best performer in
> > leadership-getting the job done activities over 6 months of courses.
> > Hands like shovels, every bit a working stiff (a gourmand too, which
> > no stereotyping would have predicted - he couldn't even do the Belbin
> > Test on which the team issues were supposedly predicated).  There is
> > much we could learn and do from this insight of yours - though there
> > is a paradox in needing to 'articulate' it.  I read the NS stuff much
> > as you have btw.
>
> > We are not likely to be Celts genetically Francis - but I take your
> > point well.  Religion is sorry stuff, yet fellowship surely is not
> > (with some reservations about the gender connotation of the word).
> > How do we move though in a fellowship not construed about in-group
> > play and in 'mystery' that is not palpable nonsense requiring faith
> > where there should be none that is at least not tentative - a regular
> > point of yours?
>
> > My feeling is that 'soft skills' are essentially degenerate and lay us
> > open only to manipulation.  We need to know more on this and there are
> > some pretty horrifying scientific explanations I suspect are true -
> > including that we make decisions before we even start to think about
> > them.
>
> > On 1 Mar, 20:11, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 1 Mrz., 19:00, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I'm Scots Francis, so I have little interest in seeing other than a
> > > > cricket score when Wales play England at the sport I was barred from
> > > > because I took broken time payments that were often somewhat less than
> > > > the "amateurs" took in "expenses".
>
> > > My profoundest apologies, Neil. I'm afraid I'm not completely free of
> > > the Irish tendency to regard everyone living on the largest island in
> > > the North-East Atlantic Archipelago simply as "Brit." Thnk you for
> > > reminding me that we are really, in fact, Celtic cousins and, as such,
> > > should be allies against the perfidious Sassenach.
>
> > > Sport remains a fascinating microcosm for politics and society, not
> > > least because of its amazing capability for hypocrisy and because the
> > > people in charge generally have nothing to do with any kind of
> > > performance and productivity. Samaranch is proabably the greatest role
> > > model in sport today.
>
> > > Francis
>
> > > > Science is close to making a bit more sense than Wittgenstein in terms
> > > > of much that works in dialogue that is not easy to trace in the
> > > > words.  It may soon be possible to do some kind of "discourse analysis
> > > > at speed" - or perhaps the turn will be the discovery some of us do
> > > > have such a faculty.  Deception is key in politics and the key in
> > > > discourses of actual sciences is transparency.
> > > > I've had the odd word with my grandson of late and he has loads of
> > > > problems believing the biology of puberty or that I'm a biologist for
> > > > that matter!  He is working something out about lying at the moment.
> > > > My guess is something goes wrong with this process because cheating
> > > > and bullying really are the names of the language-games we play - and
> > > > maybe (I think likely) these are built-in rather like 'rank' in social
> > > > insects?  My feeling is we are on the verge of a scientific unpacking
> > > > of this stuff that will allow our debates to change and produce new
> > > > 'leadership' forms - perhaps embodied in technology without us being
> > > > run by Deep Thought.
> > > > I'm afraid we are going to collapse to war before this.  My guess is
> > > > that what links foreign policy and bwanking is the false notion of
> > > > cleverness put about.  What actually happens is something we never
> > > > know and the heroic stories are always told in retrospect.  I wonder
> > > > if we could detach idiot prejudices (Bacon's Idols) and fast-speed
> > > > analysis - and find a way of making people argue under public scrutiny
> > > > using new technologies, subjecting the votaries and worthies who have
> > > > made 'negotiation' into a from of life to scientific scrutiny?
> > > > I feel a lot of sympathy with what Don says above.  The politicians
> > > > are crap and make interventions that only work in terms of the
> > > > publicity they generate and the lies they uphold.  New Labour in the
> > > > UK have been so bad they have only ensured that pretty committed
> > > > democrats like me and Sue will never vote again.  Brown and his
> > > > cabinet sound more like Mugabe and his henchmen every day.  They can
> > > > admit no wrong.
>
> > > > On 1 Mar, 13:19, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On jobs.  Whatever happened to apprenticeships?  We call them interns
> > > > > now, I suppose-but most of those are expected to complete or be in the
> > > > > process of completing some form of higher(conformist) education.  Not
> > > > > all professions have interns and I would argue our onerous 'minimum
> > > > > wage' is mostly to blame.  I know I'm beating a dead horse here but it
> > > > > seems to me every time Congress passes a law to regulate the economy
> > > > > it just mucks up the process and makes it less efficient.
>
> > > > > Montessori school has a decent rep. of encouraging originality.  Of
> > > > > course, this is only for the very young children.  Looking back in
> > > > > history, many of the truly innovative and brilliant were practically
> > > > > hermits.  Less chance of being corrupted by humanity I suppose.  Or
> > > > > maybe they were just weird.
>
> > > > > “I would sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand
> > > > > names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by
> > > > > the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.” -- William F.
> > > > > Buckley, Jr., c. 1965
>
> > > > > I'd say I agree but I'd pick Provo, Utah over Boston.  I'm just 
> > > > > sayin'.
>
> > > > > dj
>
> > > > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, archytas <[email protected]> 
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Einstein recommended impudence, and we might draw some ideas from
> > > > > > certain polarities between which he worked and lived.  I sense this
> > > > > > would miss the point in some ways by individual focus.  If common
> > > > > > sense were reliable we wouldn't need science and I wonder whether 
> > > > > > most
> > > > > > people even get the messages about just how hard observation is and 
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > on.  Current forensic science, as accepted in our courts, is highly
> > > > > > unreliable, yet so totally reliable in CSI.  Something is afoot in
> > > > > > rationalising terms (Freudian) in public "science" - and this 
> > > > > > involves
> > > > > > massive ignorance pretending it knows what science is about.
> > > > > > Standards in our universities are now dismally low and based on
> > > > > > massively outdated ideas of what might be good for and useful to
> > > > > > students.  We lie to them about job prospects and more or less
> > > > > > everything.  Incompetence and rigidity have turned to corruption.  
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > kids I used to teach genuinely believed degrees from my third rate
> > > > > > institution would buy them that BMW, yet their fate was as shelf-
> > > > > > stackers and call-centre fodder.  Yet even in more prestigious 
> > > > > > places
> > > > > > the syllabus is the same sad dross.  I don't want to elevate
> > > > > > creativity to something only a few academically capable can do - 
> > > > > > thus
> > > > > > I follow a sense that creativity must lie elsewhere in large part.  
> > > > > > My
> > > > > > guess is we could start with jobs that could have meaning and 
> > > > > > develop
> > > > > > productive skills - this is an essentially communal task.
>
> > > > > > On 28 Feb, 20:17, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >> Academia's rigid walls seemed designed to supress dissent, and 
> > > > > >> thus, originality. I wonder if I were an academic if I would have 
> > > > > >> the courage to publish at all. Some of my heroes were crucified 
> > > > > >> for their ideas, especially if any flaw at all was discovered in 
> > > > > >> their proof. Hawking's 10 dimension version of M theory comes to 
> > > > > >> mind...sending him into seclusion for ten years! Yet when he 
> > > > > >> returned, he had 11 dimension M theory in hand, problem neatly 
> > > > > >> solved.
>
> > > > > >> Conformity always has been the enforced ideal.
>
> > > > > >> [ Attached Message ]From:archytas 
> > > > > >> <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds Eye\"" 
> > > > > >> <[email protected]>Date:Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:37:51 -0800 
> > > > > >> (PST)Local:Sat 28 Feb 2009 12:37Subject:[Mind's Eye] critical 
> > > > > >> consensus
>
> > > > > >> Academics generally hold that your average plonker is about as 
> > > > > >> likely
> > > > > >> to come up with anything original as a Pope is likely to be non-
> > > > > >> Catholic (Francis will no doubt tell us some were!) - this 
> > > > > >> actuality
> > > > > >> runs somewhat in contrast with learning organisation myths and so 
> > > > > >> on
> > > > > >> that stress that we are all originals and it's just school that 
> > > > > >> beats
> > > > > >> it out of us.  Quite why a bunch of inveterate plagiarists should 
> > > > > >> hold
> > > > > >> such views on other people's originality, I'm not sure.  I seem to
> > > > > >> have wasted much time discussing originality amongst people utterly
> > > > > >> devoid of it.  I have a sense of what it might be and that we 
> > > > > >> ascribe
> > > > > >> it to individuals falsely, as
>
> ...
>
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>
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