" Considering further the issue of control, I would have to ask myself if I am really in control or do I focus on the cosmos ... "
Looking entirely at the process I am familiar with, I find that this sense of " control," as in ' I ' am in control over ... myself, situation, something other than I ... keeps us on the path, at on - the - job - training as it were, but does not leave us ' free ' of the consequences / results that follow the moment, necessitating a review of our past ( action, judgement, belief ... ) and judging ourself in turn, which sticks and usually ' fudges ' our view of the future moment already upon us. There is a need therefore to transcend the subject - object sense of control, however it is arrived at. The sense here is : Clarity, of the moment, that which is present, the now, including ( and strictly limited to ) all that is pertinent -- both the ' I ' and what it is faced with. The Clarity I speak of covers what is in our view and what that ( which is in our view ) is doing to us ... to our emotion, to our mind, in our intellect, and to the ' I ' as we then are. In the process, we are certainly called upon to answer : What do I want ? Which really isn't simple, as Justin's post elsewhere eloquently lays out. The question : What is desirable ? ... quickly reveals its obverse : What is electable ? The desirable is rooted in the ' I ' and the electable in the Whole or Totality. With our materialised habits, we cannot avoid proceeding with the desirable, that would leave us satisfied in the immediate time - frame. With experience though, of far more dissatisfaction with ourself, we wake up to the practise of sensing the electable, prescribed by the Whole or Eternity, as it were. Greater clarity of the electable spiritualises our habits. Molly's take of " allowing the greatest good of all " becomes meaningful in this context, of the electable. Spiritual finesse takes us to the point when the desirable and the electable coincide. Which is not to say that matters become simplistic. We may have to elect " to kill " or " to destroy " or " to lie." Just as clearly as when we are called upon to elect the opposites. One would still suck. The other would be our good karma ! Finally, in it all, the actual result that manifests or materialises leaves us untouched. There is Eternity, for our actions to come true, for the good of oneself and of others ! Amen. On Jul 24, 2:15 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Well Molly, your "allowing the greatest good for all" part seems off > my list. My approach appears to be more selfish than that. I > expressed a disengagement from the external, not necessarily an > indifference but a personal, self imposed division while maintaining a > juxtaposition. Further, it is the animal correlation and the many > facets of control exhibited by that kingdom. While we represent a > distant part of it, we are nonetheless a part and that would have > bearing upon your control issue. Your post seems to address Justin > and Fran's interpretations and so I didn't see the imbued relevance to > my post. Kill two birds with one stone, eh? I also found some > significance in the Jung and Nietzsche reference to shadow and self in > regards to control. The thread issue is very complex and will not > find resolve in any one or several posts as each post may present a > new aspect from which to view this perplexing mental characteristic of > being in control. > Considering further the issue of control, I would have to ask myself > if I am really in control or do I focus on the cosmos in order to > transfer the control over to some other universal energy that seems to > work for me while at the same time thinking that I am in control or > controlling a situation, morphing from the controller to the > controlled in a metaphysical sense. > I think you have started a great thread and also agree with Vam that > we should eliminate the puppy dung and ornography and solidify the > continuity of posts. These inappropriate and irrelevant intrusions > only serve as an impediment to the already difficult path to analysis > and perspective of the complex thread topic, they are an obstacle to > productive philosophy. > As an aside I think that irrelevant posts should simply be removed by > the moderation squad before they even get the opportunity to waste our > mental energy upon reading them. Why do they even appear? > > On Jul 23, 3:21 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I did see your good post, Slip, and found it interesting that we were > > creating posts for this thread at about the same time. I thought, > > after finishing my post and reading yours, that my comment > > "participating in a way that demands our awareness and responses > > allowing the greatest good for all. " covered what I would have said > > to yours. Was there something else you wanted to delve into? > > > On Jul 23, 4:05 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Did you miss my 11:15 post, Molly? > > > > On Jul 23, 2:40 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I don't remember anyone implying that anger is a spirit...and Wes, > > > > these are nice biblical references, but what is your point in citing > > > > them? > > > > > On Jul 23, 1:52 pm, Wes <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >Do we have the power to create our realities? Are we in control? > > > > > >What do YOU think? > > > > > > 29. Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that > > > > > is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that > > > > > is a marvel of marvels. (The Gospel of > > > > > Thomas)http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html > > > > > > If Anger, or Greed, or Nicotine, or things like that are called > > > > > spirits, then you could say that these things that control us are > > > > > created by us. (Wine and Spirits ~ Alcoholism can take a pretty heavy > > > > > handed control of a person. Prohibition was reversed, and (Creator- > > > > > ed?) a new course for the country/world.) > > > > > > On Jul 22, 9:29 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Are we in control of ourselves, our lives, our families, our worlds? > > > > > > Or are we just aware and knowing what one can do if something > > > > > > unpredictable happens? > > > > > > There are many explanations for why we do what we do. For example, > > > > > > Thomas Metzinger's new Book, The Ego Tunnel: The Science of the Mind > > > > > > and the Myth of the Self, seriously questions whether there is even > > > > > > an > > > > > > "I", let alone a "we." And Douglas Hofstadter's book, I Am a Strange > > > > > > Loop, contends that the "self" is a recursively self-referencing > > > > > > memory loop. > > > > > > > Hundreds of experiments by Benjamin Libet and others tend to > > > > > > conclusively confirm that our brain prepares to execute our > > > > > > decisions > > > > > > before we are even aware that anything is being decided. It alerts > > > > > > us > > > > > > to our decisions only in time (a split second) for us to veto them. > > > > > > > Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet, as well as Benjamin > > > > > > Libet's book, Mind Time, and Walter J. Freeman's book, How Brains > > > > > > Make > > > > > > Up Their Minds. > > > > > > > It is quite likely that we have no so-called "free will" other than > > > > > > veto power over our specific actions. Our free will may consist > > > > > > instead of 1) being mindful about any ill-serving subliminal > > > > > > intentions and tendencies that inform our actions so that we are > > > > > > accordingly prepared to veto any action that they correspondingly > > > > > > inform, and of 2) programming (or reprogramming) our subliminal > > > > > > intentions to be more productive of the experiencing that we most > > > > > > desire. > > > > > > > Do we have the power to create our realities? Are we in control? > > > > > > What do YOU think?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
