Ohh Banbury, were the ever-so-lovely Deburg's come from!
On 21 Aug, 11:46, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20 Aug, 17:50, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Pat, my friend, it gives me goosebumps, merely to know that there is
> > someone who sees this perfect sense !
>
> > This is where, and only where, one knows of the miraculous nature ( of
> > the worlds ) of Maya, when one sees that it never was. Untill then,
> > there is nothing illusory about Maya. Its effects affect us
> > overwhelmingly, overpower our self completely, forever pre - seeding
> > us with I - me - mine - want - satisfaction - desire - fulfilment -
> > misery - joy - knowledge - ignorance ... and all the cyclic phenomena
> > of gross, subtle and causal spaces, most of which we are not even
> > aware of ( ever ).
>
> > Satyam Gyanam Anantam Brahman ... Existence Knowledge Infinite
> > Brahman. IT has nothing to do with these worlds of endless finites,
> > which is ours, in our minds.
>
> > We should stop dwelling on this topic, lest the moderators swoop down
> > upon us, their shrill whistle creating pandemonium all about us !
>
> > Back to us, Pat, did you change your mobile ? I tried calling you up
> > a couple of times but couln't connect.
>
> The number you had was my land line, not my mobile. And, since I've
> moved to Banbury, I haven't, yet, had the resources to afford a land
> line. Thus, my inability to connect to the Internet at home. Leaving
> work as the only place I can spend time here. Which is why my
> presence here waned, as various demands and deadlines meant that I
> didn't have any real time at work to spend here. And, with no way to
> connect elsewhere, I appeared to go AWOL. I'll send you my mobile
> number privately, although I don't know what extra digits you may have
> to dial in order to connect to it (and the network to which it's
> connected).
>
>
>
> > On Aug 20, 8:52 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 19 Aug, 17:53, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Thoughts on ' next life ' are rich grounds for speculation, mostly
> > > > presented as ' this ' is what one believes, thinks or supposes.
>
> > > > Knowers, in Hindu and Buddhist tradition, announce that it is like the
> > > > dream state of being, which compares well in terms of body possession
> > > > and identity. In the dream state, one is without body rootedness ; in
> > > > ' next life,' we are without the body itself.
>
> > > > The picture then, of next life, is ego - desire - want - idea of
> > > > oneself - remorse - joy - finite knowledge flashes - sensuous
> > > > impressions in oneself, of others ... in short, dreams become real,
> > > > like much of the same existential experience and being in this life,
> > > > but now without the opportunity to act and experience and learn and
> > > > realise and become free of it all while being on - the - job !
>
> > > > Indeed, the summum bono : I've done all there was to be done, known
> > > > all there was to know, been all there was to be ... and I desire none
> > > > of it all, transcend all ! There is no ' next life ' for such, no
> > > > coming or going, no paths or destinations, no ( finite ) beings or
> > > > experiences or relationships to be identified with, no bondage or
> > > > liberation. He is One.
>
> > > > Maya is real all the way ... except with One that knows its unreality
> > > > and transcends it
>
> > > Thus Maya is an all-too-willing servant that quickly turns the tables
> > > and becomes one's master; but NEVER becoming master of one who knows
> > > they are One. This makes perfect sense in that One simply cannot have
> > > a master. ;-)
>
> > > > On Aug 19, 8:21 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On 19 Aug, 14:40, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I would agree, but rather than say "rather than
> > > > > > ours" I would say including ours, as I believe that part of me that
> > > > > > is god includes all of me, and, I AM god, meaning, I include all of
> > > > > > god. On a good day, I hold this in my awareness.
>
> > > > > I WOULD agree, but I'm puzzled as 'that part of me that is God'
> > > > > implies there are (or may be) parts of you that are not God, and, for
> > > > > me, that implies a partner for God and/or something that is 'other'
> > > > > with respect TO God, and THAT borders on idolatry, for me. Of course,
> > > > > your statement continued "that part of me that is God includes all of
> > > > > me" which, then, doesn't conflict and becomes a difficult statement to
> > > > > grasp. I hope this is a good day, then. ;-)
>
> > > > > > On Aug 19, 9:29 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On 19 Aug, 13:28, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > What I am trying to say, is because we take our experience with
> > > > > > > > us,
> > > > > > > > after the death of our bodies, we take our relationships with
> > > > > > > > us...relationships to others, to things, to all of our
> > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > > The quality of our relationships is really the basis or our
> > > > > > > > "choices". How we choose to relate to our experience defines
> > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > being.
>
> > > > > > > Perhaps, but there's a good chance that we might find out that
> > > > > > > 'our'
> > > > > > > thoughts aren't really ours (another false ownership) but God's
> > > > > > > thoughts being thought THROUGH the vehicle we call our 'self'.
> > > > > > > Equally, our experiences are the experiences of the One, rather
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > ours. This kind of understanding may well bring one to a kind of
> > > > > > > Nirvana, in that one will discover the true nature of self as
> > > > > > > Self.
>
> > > > > > > > On Aug 19, 8:15 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On 19 Aug, 13:04, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > This brings to mind one of my favorite bits from the series
> > > > > > > > > > Red
> > > > > > > > > > Dwarf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZqjLa2X3L8
>
> > > > > > > > > > That cat knew what's what.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I think that in unity, connection with all others or
> > > > > > > > > > objects, is
> > > > > > > > > > "being" one with experience. In the end, we do take it all
> > > > > > > > > > with us,
> > > > > > > > > > or at least, as much of it as is real, and it is etched in
> > > > > > > > > > our soul
> > > > > > > > > > for all eternity...and that is every one of our moments in
> > > > > > > > > > this life.
>
> > > > > > > > > Yeah, I'll go along with that. Unfortunately, I can't view
> > > > > > > > > YouTube
> > > > > > > > > at work (and I still don't have a connection at home). What
> > > > > > > > > was the
> > > > > > > > > clip?
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Aug 19, 7:52 am, Pat <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On 28 July, 18:02, frantheman
> > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > In the course of the recent discussion here concerning
> > > > > > > > > > > > the reposting
> > > > > > > > > > > > of Minds Eye contributions in other internet fora, the
> > > > > > > > > > > > question of
> > > > > > > > > > > > copyright arose. It got me to thinking about the idea
> > > > > > > > > > > > of intellectual
> > > > > > > > > > > > ownership and the idea of possession in general.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > We have all seen the Westerns in which the Native
> > > > > > > > > > > > Americans sold away
> > > > > > > > > > > > title to land for nothing, or pittances because the
> > > > > > > > > > > > white man's
> > > > > > > > > > > > concept of "owning" land was incomprehensible to them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Throughout
> > > > > > > > > > > > history, many of those whom we regard as great thinkers
> > > > > > > > > > > > have been very
> > > > > > > > > > > > critical of the benefits of possessions and owning
> > > > > > > > > > > > things. Indeed, a
> > > > > > > > > > > > controversy centred on the absolute poverty of Christ
> > > > > > > > > > > > raged throughout
> > > > > > > > > > > > the medieval Christian Church and completely split the
> > > > > > > > > > > > Franciscan
> > > > > > > > > > > > movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > > > > > > > > > > > Franciscans#Renewed_controversy_on_the_question_of_poverty).
> > > > > > > > > > > > In this
> > > > > > > > > > > > context, it is perhaps interesting to note that one of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the all-time
> > > > > > > > > > > > heroes here on Minds Eye, William of Occam, was a
> > > > > > > > > > > > proponent of the
> > > > > > > > > > > > principle of absolute poverty and lost his job as
> > > > > > > > > > > > English Franciscan
> > > > > > > > > > > > provincial and was excommunicated as a result.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Personally I spent almost a decade as a Dominican
> > > > > > > > > > > > friar, during which
> > > > > > > > > > > > time I took a "vow of poverty." I don't want to go into
> > > > > > > > > > > > a discussion
> > > > > > > > > > > > on the extent to which Catholic monks actually live
> > > > > > > > > > > > according to this
> > > > > > > > > > > > vow here, personally, I always found it to be the
> > > > > > > > > > > > expression of an
> > > > > > > > > > > > attitude of freedom from a dictatorship of "things." It
> > > > > > > > > > > > may also have
> > > > > > > > > > > > left an indelible mark on me in that in almost a
> > > > > > > > > > > > quarter of a century
> > > > > > > > > > > > since leaving the order I have been pretty bad at
> > > > > > > > > > > > earning,
> > > > > > > > > > > > accumulating and retaining material wealth and
> > > > > > > > > > > > possessions. During my
> > > > > > > > > > > > life I have gone through a number of pretty radical
> > > > > > > > > > > > changes, which
> > > > > > > > > > > > have often involved leaving nearly everything behind
> > > > > > > > > > > > and starting
> > > > > > > > > > > > again. Such processes have been, inevitably, traumatic,
> > > > > > > > > > > > although not
> > > > > > > > > > > > necessarily negative. One of the things that has helped
> > > > > > > > > > > > is the fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > that I have never felt particularly attached to
> > > > > > > > > > > > "things". But maybe my
> > > > > > > > > > > > sense of "ownership" is just underdeveloped, or damaged!
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > There's a German saying which states that "he who has
> > > > > > > > > > > > possessions has
> > > > > > > > > > > > worries." Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, one of the founders
> > > > > > > > > > > > (!) of modern
> > > > > > > > > > > > anarchism went farther with his statement that
> > > > > > > > > > > > "property is theft."
> > > > > > > > > > > > What does it mean to "own" something anyway?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To use Molly's words: What do you think?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Francis
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Ownership is an illusion derived from the close
>
> ...
>
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