No On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 22 Nov, 06:38, dj Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ok I really did not want to get back into this ..but I will...I see that > we > > do not give ourselves credit for anything...that every breath that comes > out > > of our nostrials is of God's doing's---As far as Judaism..there was > several > > things that Jesus set as an example and here they are again..1. he was > the > > door to life to the ones that was not of the Jewish or Judaism and was > > called gentiles.. > > How does that jive with Matthew 15:24: "I am not sent but unto the > lost sheep of the house of Israel."? I read that to mean that the > Gentiles were not involved whatsoever; rather, his mission was to > reform Judaism by reminding Jews to follow the Laws commanded to them > by God in the Torah. > > 2. he set a example towards the law of the Jewish and > > Judaism and others that where there is no law there is no sin..that what > > that meant was a freedom of the oppression of the law's and tradition's > of > > man... > > Was this not what Moses meant when he said: "There is no freedom > without the Law."? > > >3. He set up a discipleship to preach the gospels...and what the > > gospels was of peace and love and his heart and very being was in God..He > > said the Father is in me and I in the Father...so what this means he knew > > the Fathers ways > > This would imply that Jesus was omniscient. His speech in Gethsemene, > though, would suggest that he did NOT know exactly what was going ot > happen but was, nevertheless, resigned to whatever it was, thus, 'Not > my will, but thine be done.' To my way of thinking, the phrase "the > Father is in me and I in the Father" is stating two things: > 1) That God is immanently present (immanence being one aspect of > omnipresence, the other being transcendence, in which God is MORE than > just His Creation) in each of us > and > 2) That we are within God's Creation (the 'space-time continuum' or > 'the universe', as we know it), which is an extension of Himself > > >...and Jesus laid on the cross not only for the so called > > pagans-(gentiles)but also for Jewish and Judaism...and others...for they > all > > fell short of God's glory also...they had to keep on with their > traditions > > of washing themselves if they touch unclean things not only in food, but > > also any unclean man or woman, or any unclean animal's--which not even > could > > their be a blimish on animal -food--they where so tied up in so many laws > > and tradition they almost spent their whole lives doing this...Jesus made > a > > way by giving himself for all...and ask the Father to forgive all..that > > included all that was involved in his murder(which he did nothing) he was > > even above the Jewish and Judaism....he preached peace...and spread > nothing > > but good... > > > > Yes, Jesus taught peace and Love of God foremost. Unfortunately, Paul > of Tarsus entered the arena and started adding elements of polytheism > (Trinity) and outright abrogation of the Laws (circumcision, for an > example) that Jesus never taught. And these tweaks became Christian > dogma rather than relying strictly on Jesus' teachings. Also, half of > the Gospels (Luke and John) are riddled with Pauline doctrine which is > in direct conflict with Jesus' teachings. A blatant example is how > ANY changes to the Law (Torah) conflict with Matthew 5:19: "Whosoever > therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach > men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but > whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in > the kingdom of heaven." Jesus would NOT have supported Paul, yet > Paul's words form most of the New Testament. Go figure!! > > > Personally, I think the Pope should review Christianity with a view to > removing all Pauline doctrine from it and re-instating Jesus' > teachings as the basis for the faith. But that would take a bold Pope > and, quite possibly, might lead to his removal from office, as a > 'Vicar of Christ' was never a requirement as far as Jesus was > concerned. He taught that we should pray to "Our Father...", > indicating that there was no need for Jesus' intercession. > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Manfraco Frank the Elder < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Lee and everybody else! > > > Lee, I believe you are right to see God in everything, how else can it > > > be? > > > The philosopher Spinoza believed that it is more likely that we live > > > withing God, and therefore God equals mother nature. > > > Now, if I go along those lines and state my own beliefs I should say > > > that: > > > I believe God is life, and therefore, life is God itself and one > > > cannot exist without the other. > > > Do you see what I mean? God is in everything just the way you > > > believe. > > > My regards to you all > > > Manfraco. > > > > > On Nov 18, 10:49 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Indeed, but the trick is in seeing this huh. > > > > > > On 18 Nov, 11:35, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > LOL but Lee God is in everything! > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Heh I of course realise that as my particular faith emphasises > seeing > > > > > > God in everything. > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 17:28, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 16:39, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hah My dear Rigsy I swear to your right now that it is > complelty > > > the > > > > > > > > other way around for me. > > > > > > > > > > My wife has made a honest man out of me, she veritably saved > me > > > from > > > > > > > > myself, and for that I owe her everything. > > > > > > > > > Your debt is to God alone, as He worked THROUGH your wife to do > > > those > > > > > > > things. It's OK, though, if you thank your wife, as God gets > all > > > > > > > thanks through us as well, even if we don't realise it. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 16:04, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In a way, you do- by making an honest woman out of a > bedmate > > > and all > > > > > > > > > the stuff you will need to provide plus kids, etc. But the > > > woman must > > > > > > > > > be calculating to begin with. Somehow, I missed that class > but > > > find > > > > > > > > > the whole thing pretty amusing at this point in life. > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 9:57 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha my dad tells me that we men always pay for sex. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now now that's my dad not me you understand? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 15:41, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think all women should be paid for sex? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 8:43 am, archytas <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you lose a few slates from your roof while you > had > > > turned > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > > > motel Slip? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, it's immoral to argue from holy text in any > kind > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > fundamentalist manner. We could argue we have been > > > trapped in > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of mistaken argument and need to break out of > it. > > > Science > > > > > > > > > > > > probably does and at least allows things to be put to > the > > > test. > > > > > > Like > > > > > > > > > > > > Slip I have something of a penchant for being > ministered > > > to by > > > > > > women, > > > > > > > > > > > > though as yet have not experienced being as a motel > yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 12:42, Pat < > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 16 Nov, 17:03, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus said 'Our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Father...', not 'My Father...' Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes in some context such as: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine > > > before men, > > > > > > that they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may see your good deeds and praise your FATHER in > > > heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 6:9 "This, then, is how you should pray: > "'Our > > > FATHER > > > > > > in heaven, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hallowed be your name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But then again: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, > Lord,' > > > will > > > > > > enter the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will > of > > > my > > > > > > FATHER who is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I > > > will also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledge him before my FATHER in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 10:33 But whoever disowns me before men, I > will > > > disown > > > > > > him before > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my FATHER in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Working on the Sabbath: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My FATHER is > always > > > at his > > > > > > work to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this very day, and I, too, am working." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 8:53 Are you greater than our father > Abraham? > > > He > > > > > > died, and so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 8:54 Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, > my > > > glory > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing. My FATHER, WHOM YOU CLAIM AS YOUR GOD, > is > > > the one > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glorifies me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are more but remember when Mary and Joseph > > > found > > > > > > Jesus in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple, Mary asked "Son, why have you treated us > like > > > this? > > > > > > Your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > father and I have been anxiously searching for > you." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus replied, Luke 2 49 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. > "Didn't > > > you > > > > > > know I had to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be in my Father's house?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And of course the Garden of Gethsemane: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup > pass > > > from me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. But I note there were no quotes > used > > > from > > > > > > The Gospel > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mark, which is the oldest and, therefore, > > > probably(!) the > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > reliable for quotes of Jesus. Are there any quotes > in > > > Mark > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus uses 'my Father', as Matthew was based on > Mark? > > > If > > > > > > not, then we > > > > > > > > > > > > > know those "my Father"s in Matthew were added and > any > > > Gospel > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > that (Luke and John), quite likely, would/could > have > > > added > > > > > > even more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luke was written by Paul's close friend and would > > > naturally > > > > > > reflect > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul's 'spin' on Jesus. The most surprising is > > > Matthew. The > > > > > > 7:21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > quote at least acknowledges that it is the Will of > God > > > that > > > > > > matters > > > > > > > > > > > > > and not whether or not one calls Jesus 'Lord'. The > > > 10:32-33 > > > > > > quote, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though, seems a bit out of kilter with the 7:21 > quote, > > > as it > > > > > > implies > > > > > > > > > > > > > that, if an individual acknowledges Jesus (in what > way? > > > As > > > > > > 'Lord' or > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Son of God'?), Jesus will then acknowledge (again, > in > > > what > > > > > > way?) that > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual to God, but, because of the 7:21 line, > that > > > may > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > actually help an individual in any way. So what's > the > > > point > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledgement? Or was it just a simple way of > subtly > > > > > > injecting > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pauline theology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is the ongoing controversy concerning > the > > > > > > "Trinity". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never come across any scripture that > indicated > > > any > > > > > > "Mother in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven" therefore excluding any feminine aspect > of > > > God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No right-minded Jew would envisage a trinity, as > God is > > > One > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judaism. Always has been, always will be. The > Trinity > > > was > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > > > > compromise to bring 'pagans'/polytheists into the > Faith > > > by > > > > > > making > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christianity more polytheistic. Which, of course, > is a > > > > > > complete > > > > > > > > > > > > > misunderstanding of Judaism > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
