For sure religious faith and violence go hand in hand for many people, then again I would see this as a particular bent of humanity rather than of religious faith. Lets face it when a problem arises violence is almost always the first 'answer'.
So yes I agree that violence and religious faith can of course sit together in the same bed, but then the same can certianly be said about anything, any idea, ideal or prinicple that divides our 'belifes'. On 10 Dec, 08:31, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > We have been calling it jobsworthium here Bill. Governmentium is what > we have been working on to contain anti-matter - at least that's what > I've been telling them, along with the ideal gamma state they need to > achieve to convert to Administratium. > > On 10 Dec, 06:11, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Heaviest Element Yet Known to Science: (Gv) > > > Lawrence Livermore Laboratories has discovered the heaviest element > > yet > > known to science. > > > The new element, Governmentium (Gv), has one neutron, 25 assistant > > neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, > > giving > > it an atomic mass of 312. > > > These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which > > are > > surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. > > > Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert; however, it can be > > detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into > > contact. A tiny amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that > > would > > normally take less than a second, to take from 4 days to 4 years to > > complete. > > > Governmentium has a normal half-life of 2 - 6 years. It does not > > decay, > > but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the > > assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. > > > In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since > > each reorganization will cause more morons to become neutrons, > > forming > > isodopes. > > > This characteristic of morons promotion leads some scientists to > > believe > > that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical > > concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as critical > > morass. > > > When catalyzed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium, an > > element that radiates just as much energy as Governmentium since it > > has > > half as many peons but twice as many morons. > > > On Dec 9, 6:08 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yes, the glory of war, that strikes me as more the love of war than > > > the hate of it, the wanting of war and the never ending examination of > > > politics that create the necessity of war with all its > > > justifications. Much has been gained through violence in material > > > terms and huge land grabs sometimes continental. I imagine that once > > > we successfully navigate outer space there will be planetary land > > > grabs. Earth will become a useless wasteland by then ie; once we have > > > established suitable living conditions elsewhere. This place will > > > most likely become a dump for toxic waste and the rancid deep fryer > > > oil from all the McDonald's burger joints on planets x y z. Good luck > > > with your Einstein book! > > > > On Dec 9, 1:38 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Well put and concise Slip. Beyond this god stuff, our society is > > > > littered with violent images and the glory of war. Much as I like > > > > Dirty Harry, I think we need some form of 'Dirty Harry by peaceful > > > > means'. Politeness is a good thing as are manners, yet they also > > > > prevent much that needs to be said and argued out. Religion seems to > > > > have a major role in this. I'm currently trying to write a book on > > > > Einstein and even in an area like this passions run high. Even in an > > > > area like this one finds entrenched views (including, hopefully one's > > > > own) and interest groups that want only material that confirms their > > > > positions. When it comes to religion it seems impossible to try > > > > anything without hearing the noises of instruments of torture being > > > > honed. Einstein (or rather scientific development based around his > > > > work) interests me in that he produced something new that becomes > > > > essentially revolutionary through a mastery of classical tradition and > > > > re-articulation of it. I see some connection between this and what we > > > > need socially. > > > > Einstein (IMV) took a very empirical step in assuming experimental > > > > results were right (if approximate) and hence radical changes in > > > > theory were needed. I think we can see something equivalent in > > > > politics-religion-society, or at least could if we could base our > > > > thinking on facts from reliable history. Tyke may well be onto one > > > > with the religion as faith in violence assertion. We need some new > > > > ability to 'get empirical' in the social arena. I see this as far > > > > more difficult than the fantastic voyage Einstein and others launched > > > > us on. My rather crass current thinking is that Einstein has facts to > > > > work with. When we try this in the social arena we only have > > > > bullshit. > > > > > On 8 Dec, 19:56, dj Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I do not like war and it would be nice if terroist and other unlikely > > > > > charcters exist-which cause such things. It is not just Faith and > > > > > religion > > > > > causes this (no doubt it exist also in great amounts)and to torture > > > > > in war > > > > > most of us agree it is unhuman..I find that science existed also in > > > > > the > > > > > early days. There has been alot of so called conquerers over > > > > > time..Such as > > > > > Roman and Alexander and many more to conquerer and claim and rule. In > > > > > another light as we know we have talked about this before. Outside > > > > > of God > > > > > or claiming God there has been wars of all kinds and some was to be > > > > > able to > > > > > hold their kind. I we convert over to totally sceince and as they > > > > > say no > > > > > Gods, no masters would it be less violence? And would some die out > > > > > and those > > > > > realms would totally not exist or their people? > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Welcome tyke. Faith and Violence do exist as bedfellows and they > > > > > > have > > > > > > for thousands of years. We might note the absence of science in > > > > > > early > > > > > > religious days and how biblical reference to violence may in fact > > > > > > contribute largely to the concept that through violent acts victory > > > > > > will be achieved and favor will be found with God. I'm sure the > > > > > > church > > > > > > thought they were doing the right thing to Galileo. The controversy > > > > > > is that while God is presented as loving and as having omniscient > > > > > > characteristics there are numerous accounts where violence is either > > > > > > committed or ordered by God. "The belief in a cruel God makes a > > > > > > cruel > > > > > > man", Thomas Paine. God's violence is the basis for many of the > > > > > > teachings in the bible and therefore his followers would also find > > > > > > justification in the torment and killing of an enemy. God commits > > > > > > war > > > > > > time atrocities, the annihilation of entire cities, men, women, > > > > > > children and animals. God ordered the torturous death of his own > > > > > > son. God further issues dictates of pestilence, famine, fire and > > > > > > brimstone to name a few. This is all in the past of course but what > > > > > > about the future. The bible says that when Jesus returns he is > > > > > > going > > > > > > to send us sinners into the abyss of fiery damnation to be eternally > > > > > > tormented. See you in hell, friends, lol. So I guess God's violent > > > > > > tendencies are not yet over. Considering that God's solutions to > > > > > > humanities problems are of a violence nature it is easily perceived > > > > > > that humanity's solution to problems has always been through the use > > > > > > of violence and it still is. George Bush claimed that God wanted him > > > > > > to become President and then ordered the bombing of Iraq, resulting > > > > > > in > > > > > > the deaths of thousands of innocents. I find, generally speaking, > > > > > > that religious people are perceived to be kind gentle souls living > > > > > > in > > > > > > the light and love of the Lord, but just don't piss them off or you > > > > > > might find yourself under the knife. Truth is that many wars and > > > > > > atrocities have a underlying religious theme, someone say Jihad?, > > > > > > the > > > > > > permissible killing of people under the Muslim faith. Well the list > > > > > > goes on and the examples are too numerous to cite, but we get the > > > > > > gist > > > > > > of what is going on with violence in the world. I think the bibles > > > > > > are not any word of God but simply a convenient manual for humanity > > > > > > to > > > > > > justify its warped sense of getting along. Personally I don't buy > > > > > > into any of it and strive towards a melioristic approach to a > > > > > > peaceful > > > > > > environment. Violence is simply a byproduct of judgment which many > > > > > > times is related to religious retribution. > > > > > > > On Dec 8, 1:09 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > We have pondered a lot on this in here Tyke. Not sure I should > > > > > > > be in > > > > > > > so much agreement with someone with a handle suggesting Yorkshire, > > > > > > > having commitments this side of the Pennines myself! But I agree > > > > > > > entirely, not least because we seem to need more than > > > > > > > 'rationalism' to > > > > > > > solve basic problems of getting along. Our increasing > > > > > > > connectedness > > > > > > > takes many forms, involving floods because trees have been hacked > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > (a theme in terms of water rights of many old Westerns) and buying > > > > > > > products from sweat-shops (etc.). In other terms, despite so far > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Internet, we remain divided and ruled. > > > > > > > There is much violence and violent competition in nature and also > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > cooperation in it. Religion appears easy to use to motivate > > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > and this scares me, along with seemingly inevitable problems with > > > > > > > faith being so irrational and incapable of accepting facts at the > > > > > > > expense of retaining dogmas. One thing I believe bolsters this > > > > > > > is the > > > > > > > insistence of science > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
