Race is broadly bull. We may be as connected genetically to chimps as lions are to tigers (which can mate). Most births in London these days are mixed race. Lee's right, yet consider lots of British battles - they were often between families. We don't need racial excuses to do each other in.
I think the PC stuff is racist Fidd, covering up the problem in manners being typical of people who won't really deal with the issues and remain unchanged under the veneer. Lots of science backs that up. I tends to think cultures can cripple people and may generally be doing this to us. We can find stuff like IQ differences which some want to use to show black people as dumb (and aborigines and American Indians), but we also find nothing genetic. People jump in crying racism over stuff like this and denying IQ has any meaning and all, but I suspect this is just the racist PC stuff kicking in. It is possible to be looking for the truth rather than superiority in such matters. The incidence of rape is much higher in some cultures than others, and the status and treatment of women varies greatly. I don't think ignoring these things or falling into the idiot trap of cultural relativism helps at all. In the Middle East I found some women who made arguments for retaining the veil. Here we might find 4 out of 5 women recommending Max Factor. Seems pretty much the same stuff to me - just people conditioned by their cultures. Some blokes there shared my contempt for Western capitalism for very similar reasons, and eventually taught me the 'available' and 'come on' signals that can be done by black bag wearers. Because of culture it can be difficult to know whether people are making free and individual choices, though I guess you can tell when they are being repressed by idiots in mobs calling girls wearing Western dress whores with real threat of violence. Deep down, why should I be tolerant of black bags? Or cosmetic adverts, or adverts for cars as penis extensions? I don't like them and find them repressive. When it comes to IQ, there might just be no need of it in certain cultures (like white, poor, British male culture). I wouldn't value such stuff anywhere near a touch of decency and caring in an individual, so who makes it so important? I've met people who have shown disdain for me as a racist in their nasty PC ways who have practised racism in quite dire ways. One of the points of research is to allow people to express what they really think without cultural or mannered threats (this is one reason for confidential data collection). Logic also tells us if we won't tolerate racism, there is something we won't tolerate and that we are probably going to have to draw lines. Forcing women who want to wear Burkhas to wear Western clothes is as bad as its reverse. Deciding to teach naked is not allowed, but where have we got to once an air stewardess can't wear a little cross? On 8 Jan, 12:58, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > You know what I agree with some of this. > > Race doesn't really exist yet I can certianly agree that such an idea > equates somewhat with 'breeds'. Why then if I can agree this far do I > still claim that race doen't really exist? > > Lets go back to Darwins finches for a while. All of course from the > same speices, but evolved in such a way so as to be able to live, feed > and breed in their little geogarphical niches. So to have humans > evolved dependant on where in the world our ancesters come from. > > However just like these finches we are still the same species. The > label 'Race' I belive is a misnoumer and serves only to divide us > along imagined lines of geography. > > As to culture and one people. I don't really care too much about > culture, only that there are differances and such differancs give > people differant outlooks. Globalisation IS going to happen, and I > say the quicker we embrace it the better. I fail to understand the > relevance of national pride, cultural pride, or any sort of pride that > seeks to maintain purly arbeterary differances between us. > > On 8 Jan, 07:39, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Many people -in a misguided effort to be pc- claim race to be non- > > existent. > > Others -simply misguided- view melanin to be the only indicator of > > race. > > Many view race in an unhealthy and divisive manner, some reason not to > > like "them." > > Many view race in an equally unhealthy fascination, such as people > > that only date others of a specific and different race. > > > Race is best described as a set of genetic traits that pass down in a > > predictable pattern. Dark skin is only more melanin than light skin, > > therefore is not a racial indicator. However, dark skin, small > > stature, specific and recognizable facial features, arm length, trunk > > length, eye colour, blood type, etc., can all combine to give one a > > racial heritage. A turkish nose combined with a slanted eye structure > > and blonde hair only mean that you are of no definite race. Any person > > that has spent time in the orient, or near asians that develop "towns" > > in large cities (i.e.:chinatown) can easily discern the difference > > between Japanese, Chinese, Korean, or Vietnamese for this reason. All > > of the indicators are similar, but subtle and genetically reproduced > > traits produce different "looks." > > > I meet so many people that want to appear open minded while they end > > up only appearing stupid or ill-informed. Often one hears that race > > doesn't exist because humans can interbreed...yes, people repeat this > > absurdity. This does not indicate race, it would instead indicate a > > different species. Race refers to a smaller grouping of genetically > > diverse sets within a species. It is a "breed," much like dog or cat > > populations. The fact that a Siamese cat can breed with a tabby does > > not indicate that there is no difference between them. It merely means > > that they have a different sub-grouping. I am occasionally stunned at > > how vehement people protest when compared to their pets. Sorry, races > > are identical in concept to breeds. > > > Knowing this, how likely are you to be a "tabby" person vs. a Siamese > > person? Would you detest a neighbour that allowed his Rottweiler to > > impregnate a Dane? Do you view a Labradoodle to be an abomination? It > > sounds quite silly, doesn't it? Even a devout racist would laugh at > > the idea. But how then, can people declare human interbreeding to be > > an affront to their god? Believe it or not, this is still an active > > topic in many countries. An Arab "mixing" with a Pakistani or Indian, > > a "white" mixing with a native American or "black", etc., are still > > abhorred and occasionally murdered for the affront (or vice versa). > > > I noticed a few people claim to want a world consciousness that allows > > "one people" to be a concept, but can it? Remember that racial is only > > one characteristic of humanity that people are murdered for. "Mixing" > > or forsaking ones religion is another. Regional differences -Basque > > and Spaniard, Russian and Ukrainian, etc.,- is another. > > > I'm not a person that calls for the "one people" concept. I believe > > that heritage is a special tie that allows one to remember their > > ancestors and the past- something that allows such beautiful things as > > garb, language, custom, etc.. I firmly believe that ignoring race (or > > attempting to) causes far more problems than it solves. Celebrating > > Chinese new year in Chinatown is something I would suggest to anyone > > for an example of how awesome diversity can be. Why can't we allow > > others their cultural inheritance, so long as the culture itself isn't > > corrupt? Yes this seems to be contrary, but please think about a > > religious fundamentalist that wants your death and whether or not you > > want to "celebrate" the idea. > > > Where do you stand on race, heritage, and the destruction of what > > makes unique and interesting people, unique and interesting people; > > in the hopes of a world with "one people?"
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