Surely you don't want to put Gabbers up on a balcony (or was that pedestal?) Francis! I think some people survive culture rather well, and this may have something to do with being able to see how ridiculous they usually are. Molly seems to be pointing to the chains of illusion, Gabby to some of the material ones. The ducking stool will no doubt bring them round to the correct view of patriarchal paradise! Culture has some good stuff in it as well as bad. I think we have gone very badly wrong, but also that individual therapy doesn't look like much of an effective, general 'cure'. Sooner or later we have to get to grips with a lot of nasty stuff, including over-population and daft ideas we must respect all sorts of cultural baggage.
On 7 Mar, 21:38, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Are you sure you you meant mode and not mood? > > As for your point, Anne scores significantly higher than Ursula, don't > you think? > > On 7 Mrz., 17:16, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Ursula von der Leyen, the German Labour Minister, has seven children. > > What point are you trying to make, Gabby? Or are you just in your > > Statler and Waldorf mode? > > :-)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statler_%26_Waldorf > > > Francis > > > On 7 Mrz., 17:10, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ah, those were the days! The days of the rising British Empire! Donne > > > himself had 12 children produced by Anne Donne. > > > > On 6 Mrz., 23:54, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The irony is that outside of/without a culture McKenna's statement > > > > would not make any sense at all - would be impossible, in fact. > > > > Margaret Thatcher's comment, "there is no such thing as society," > > > > comes to mind. > > > > > But we are social, and in the intersubjective world in which we live > > > > (unless we want to opt for a [stoned] eremetic solopsism) culture is > > > > an inevitable function of the group. The trick is in being part of the > > > > group without letting our thinking being (unthinkingly) dictated by > > > > the group. > > > > > We are, to a great extent, the products of our histories and contexts. > > > > But this is not all we are, or all we can be. McKenna talks of the > > > > difficulties of deconstructing our ideologies. He's right there, but > > > > we don't need to (and - I believe - can't) completely deconstruct our > > > > contexts, because the result, ultimately, of such a deconstruction is > > > > that nothing is left. Rather we should be aware of that fact that we > > > > are always culturally, historically, contextually grounded. This > > > > realisation teaches us that our positions are contingent, inevitably, > > > > in some sense, biased. Here, paradoxically, we find our freedom and > > > > the possibility to grow. > > > > > The ultimate context is our humanity, which means that we are > > > > inevitably anthropomorphic. There are no human monopoles. > > > > > "No man is an island, entire of itself > > > > every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main > > > > if a clod be washed away by the sea, > > > > Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, > > > > as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were > > > > any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind > > > > and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls > > > > it tolls for thee." > > > > John Donne > > > > > Francis > > > > > On 6 Mrz., 18:24, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > "Culture is not your friend, no matter what your culture is. And this > > > > > is sort of not a Politically Correct thing to say, because in the > > > > > present ambience, (sort of, those who haven't gotten the word) there's > > > > > a lot of attention to recovering our ethnic roots and to expressing > > > > > our unique ethnicity, and so forth and so on -- I think that's the > > > > > beginning of understanding. But all terms that stress ethnicity are > > > > > words applied to groups of people. Have you ever noticed that? Have > > > > > you ever noticed that you're not a group of people, you're a person? > > > > > So you may be "Jewish", you may be "Black", you may be this, you may > > > > > be that but there is no obligation to take upon yourself the > > > > > generalized quality of these things, because the generalized qualities > > > > > belong to thousands of people examined at a time. If you misunderstand > > > > > that you become a caricature. You act out your ethnicity as a > > > > > caricature. > > > > > > So culture is not your friend, ideology is not your friend... Who's > > > > > your friend? Well, to my mind, the felt presence of immediate > > > > > experience is the surest dimension, the surest guide that you can > > > > > possibly have. The felt presence of immediate experience. Feeling is > > > > > primary. All rationalization and intellectualization and analysis is > > > > > secondary, and comes out of culture. No matter what your culture is, > > > > > it has answers. Cultures thinks up answers. So a child asks its mother > > > > > a question, like, "Where do we go when we die?" or, "Why does Daddy go > > > > > to work?" Cultural answers are always provided, but nobody knows the > > > > > real answers to these questions -- that's outside of culture. So > > > > > coming to terms and fully expressing your culture is like a stage in > > > > > development. And then beyond that lies the aspiration of the felt > > > > > presence of immediate experience, and its implications. It's a very > > > > > hard thing to deal with and to do when you are poisoned with ideology. > > > > > And ideologies are very difficult to deconstruct and rid yourself of > > > > > through a simple talking therapy of some sort, through simply trying > > > > > to work it out. The best antidote for ideology is to raise the > > > > > intensity of the felt presence of experience to such excruciating > > > > > levels that it simply vaporizes ideological illusion. And this is what > > > > > psychedelics are for, I think. And it also explains (if you've ever > > > > > wondered) the incredible phobia of these things on the part of the > > > > > establishment, the incredibly deep alarm that these things trigger in > > > > > people" - Terence McKenna > > > > > >http://www.salvia-divinorum-scotland.co.uk/quotes/mckenna/cultureisno... > > > > > > What do you think? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
