The depression comes from people not thinking like you Lee. On 9 Mar, 14:05, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > All in all a post that seems fraught wih depresion my friend, you are > okay? > > generaly speaking I am in agreement with you. I don't feel that we > are not moving though, rather we are moving very slowly indeed. > > The only issue I have really is you last sentance. > > I have no idea how much of the world professes to beliveing in any > kind of God, and how many do not so. About 50-50 maybe? > > So I can't really conclude that the majority of us want any kind of > global secular sociaty. > > Personaly I think is is more about empowering peole to live their own > lives as they wish to, to not enforce nor limit anyboides choice, > withn the scope of the law of course. If people want to live in a > secular sociaty then they should have all of the freedoms they need to > do so. The opposite is also true. > > For myself even though the UK is largley now a secular nation, I like > the mix we have here and am more than happy to remain neigbours with > theist and atheist alike. > > On 9 Mar, 12:35, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >http://www.documentary-log.com/d151-religulous/isa link to a Bill > > Maher documentary. I think it shows many of the concerns I have about > > "religion" in a fairly light-hearted manner. > > > My basic stance is this. I think science does a lot to establish the > > reality we live in. It leaves many questions that we can't find > > satisfactory answers for and room to think about the spiritual and > > purpose. I think there are good examples of reasonable thinking in > > some religious material. I am averse to respecting dafter, highly > > emotive 'in-group' religious manipulation and believe this is very > > dangerous stuff. Science involves demonstration and working practices > > and results I have been able to confirm once involved with the > > knowledge and practice, whereas religion totally fails me whenever I > > try and I come to resent goading by adherents in terms like 'it would > > let you down because you have no faith' - such stuff usually coming > > from people who clearly don't have the kind of faith I have in the > > hard work of rigorous thinking, scientific methods and imagination and > > don't do this kind of work at all well. > > > I object to religious excuses concerning hatred of others, vile sexism > > and political uses whether from Bush, Blair or fundamentalists of all > > kinds, much of which seems to exploit 'tribalism'. At the same time, > > I believe spiritual exploration can turn us on or tune us into > > worthwhile views of what we are and could be - not least in exposing > > how irrational our actions can be. I am not an unbeliever, but rather > > want to be critical in my beliefs, open to experience and to others. > > I generally believe authority, including legitimate authority is > > almost routinely abused and that we need a better understanding of how > > faith is abused in this process. I think the debate needed is always > > averted or drowned out in clashes of futile ideology between groups > > who have no intention of mutual understanding. > > > I see no sign that we understand that we could live together in peace, > > or sensible and preferably minimal rules through which we could > > achieve this, including population control and sustainable > > communities. I doubt we even understand what the main current > > religions are in practice and the extent to which this is bound up in > > foreign policy and the interests of the 'rich'. I am also sure that > > 'tolerance' is part of the answer and the problem. I do not want to > > tolerate people voting along religious or fascist lines, or the > > current situation in which I have no one to vote for and have no vote > > in anything that matters to me. Or people who say I have no morality > > because I'm atheist and use the inertial violence of a system clearly > > failing ... > > > I'm bored by 'arguments' that given religions are really about peace, > > love and joy, if only we get to the truth of revelation and ignore > > centuries of rotten history, genocides and corruption. In the > > meantime, we are not doing much of a job creating a fair, critically > > reasoned, secular society across the globe.
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