On 28 May, 19:04, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fariest of them all? >
What one sees in the mirror is down to the eyes of the beholder. ;-) > On 28 Mai, 12:34, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 27 May, 15:14, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Molly & Pat : > > > > Stop discussing Vam, his knowledge, his faith, his God, his Brahman, > > > his emotions, his vehemence ... etc. It really should mean nothing to > > > you, since you know nothing in that regard. > > > We know of you what you inform us and show us. If you had shown > > nothing of yourself, only THEN would we know nothing of you. What you > > MEAN to us is down to US, irrespective of your strop. > > > > There are matters and issues I've pointed out, quite strongly, as it > > > deserved. As it still does. And I still believe the darkness and > > > obscurity being spread by Pat, and you if you believe likewise, should > > > be stopped forthwith. > > > You base this on a mistaken view of my view. Just try to stop me and > > see how far you get. Vam, you've actually helped me and, furthermore, > > continue to demonstrate that I'm correct while trying to state I'm > > incorrect. > > > >The shades of evangelism, if not proselytism, > > > should be dusted clean. > > > Never have I attempted to convert anyone. Evangelism, by definition, > > is the spreading of 'Good News'. Do you have a problem with 'Good > > News'? > > > >We can each discuss objective and subjective > > > ideas, ontological theories and beliefs, personal experiences ... but > > > only on the premise that they might, and often do, mean nothing to > > > others. That doesn't render them any the less valuable and important, > > > worthy of love and peace, and privileged. > > > Exactly. I couldn't agree more. So why is it that, when I proffer my > > ideas, you (now) try to show them as proselytism? That's actually > > quite derogaatory and, in light of your other assailments, your > > argument with me borders more on subtle ad hominem than any real > > substance of philosophy. > > > > Quite foolishly, Pat thinks because Hindus are not protected ... he > > > has no idea what and where he's gotten into. I don't give a damn to > > > his delusions, nor of Quran or all the Muslims and ... others. > > > I mention that Christians an Jews were protected people by the > > Qur'an. And THEN, I pointed out that mocern practitioners of Islam > > are not following that precept. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH Hindus. > > YOU made that issue yourself and then tried to brand me with your > > fire. Go back and read what I read...like Molly did and give it a > > rethink. My attack was on modern practitioners of Islam and, somehow, > > you took offense to that and, now, have turned it into me > > proselytising Islam. If you had read, with a calm soul and rational, > > level head, you would have seen that. > > > >Nor do > > > I have any delusions of saving the world. Nor is my One the same as > > > you or Pat might believe. > > > If there is only One, the your One and my One MUST be the same. Our > > viewpoints give us different angles on that One. The difference is > > our geometrical viewpoint, not a difference in the One. > > > >Nor is the God I know anything even remotely > > > close to that which seems in your and Pat's espousals. > > > It used to be. We used to agree on most aspects. Then you decided to > > throw your toys out of the pram and demonstrate how rational you were. > > > >Nor ... have I > > > set myself as a Guru, all knowing, having any obligation to share or > > > teach or correct ... etc. etc. ... I share what I know when the > > > occasion offers, strictly in secular terms, except for traditions > > > which I pointedly qualify, when I see someone desirous and preparedly > > > simple. > > > Oh, so you look for those who are 'prepared' and 'desirous'? Now THAT > > sounds like proselytising to me. The big mirror should be showing > > itself right about now, if you are as enlightened as you would like to > > think. And, in my view, have shown yourself to be. Although we all > > 'fall' now and then. It affords us the chance to get back up again. > > > > So please refrain from anything pertaining to Vam. Just focus on the > > > ideas and issues I have stated. That is what matters, as far as this > > > forum goes. Which has been and still is its hallmark too. > > > You made yourself into an issue by your irrational strop and by trying > > to have me censured if not censored. And all for the wrong reasons, > > if you had read what I'd written and read it for what it said rather > > than getting p'd off about the fact that Hindus weren't specifically > > protected by the Qur'an, which is NOT a matter for debate but is, > > simply a fact of the Islamic scripture. It doesn't mention Hindus, > > BTW. > > > > I might have been equally scathing of scientists, religionists and > > > atheists, too ... but only to correct the proportions, to counter the > > > rabidness and shades of evangelical drive. I love each one of them > > > individually, not through knowing them personally but through knowing > > > myself beyond personality and individuality. Mostly I even have great > > > regard for what they espouse, because I can see its relevance to > > > humanity, what we are, in however limited or extended terms of > > > domains, specific or generic, or accuracy. > > > > What I oppose is someone telling me, and others : this is it ... this > > > is all it is. > > > Yet scientists, when they make a discovery, proclaim in no uncertain > > terms, "This is what I've discovered." You take exception to the fact > > that I've discvered something that breaks your pre-conceived notions, > > like a flat-Earther when told the Earth is more spherical. > > > > I still love the basics, the fundamentals ... because their > > > interpretation is wholly open ! Theories, conjectures, beliefs, > > > speculations ... are welcome, but only as they are. They may turn out > > > be true. But until they do, nobody has any business projecting them as > > > knowledge or truth ... as, this is it... this is all it is. > > > > People who fit the One to themselves, their theories and conjectures, > > > are grotesque, monsters in the making ... Hitler, Stalin, Mugabe, > > > Islamic extremists, Taliban ( as we know them ) ... > > > So, now you, albeit again subtly and obliquely, have equated me with > > Hitler... Personally, I find this blatant ad hominem and applaud you > > for your intellectual bravado. Well done. But I know it for what it > > is and that is plain and simple (disguised) ad hominem. Quite beneath > > you, oh so enlightened one. And now, you have demonstrated, > > behaviourly, that you are not as enlightened as you would have others > > believe. This coming from the man who told me he loved me and was SO > > happy to hear my voice. I haven't changed, although my theories have > > been refined. For one who stood by me, you now seem to stand against > > me. Whilst I remain where I have always been. You really should go > > back and re-read what I'd written and give me the benefit of the doubt > > which you used to do. > > > Also, I'd like to point out that you said above " Nor is my One the > > same as you or Pat might believe." So this demonstrates that you HAVE > > fitted the One to some concepts of yours and this, again, logically > > and demonstrably, shows that you are tarring me with a feather that > > you should be tarring yourself with. This whole escapade has been > > very revealing, Vam, but it has revealed far more about you than it > > has revealed about me. I think the One is trying to show you the dark > > side of yourself and you refuse to see it and project it on to me. > > But guess what, I'm the mirror and will reflect it right back because > > I read what you write and hear what you say nd see both the cloak and > > the dagger. Do you? Do you DARE? > > > > On May 27, 5:56 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > God is an invention of mankind. Nature invented itself. > > > > > On May 27, 6:36 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 26 May, 17:30, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > It is very interesting, Vam, that Pat's view arouses such such > > > > > > emotion > > > > > > in you. I also (along with DWB) find his posts fascinating, his > > > > > > knowledge of scripture deep, and his view interesting. Surely, not > > > > > > ALL of his view can be wrong, if being wrong is possible (in any way > > > > > > but relative), and that you continue to state that it is - well, I > > > > > > find it interesting and will leave it at that. I also had the > > > > > > thought > > > > > > that it might be golden shadow at work, as Pat stated previously. I > > > > > > wonder if you confuse his relay of scripture with his view, as with > > > > > > your statement, "you may have the need for the protection of Quran > > > > > > and > > > > > > adherents." Pat's statement was that according to the Quran, > > > > > > Islamics > > > > > > were not to fight with Christians and Jews. He used this statement > > > > > > to > > > > > > support the view that Islamic scripture is misinterpreted by many > > > > > > factions today. I don't see this as irrational or rable rousing, > > > > > > quite the opposite! > > > > > > Yes, thanks Molly. That was EXACTLY what I was intending to say. > > > > > Thanks for pointing it out. I was going to do it myself (and would > > > > > have by now, had I access to the Internet at home), as I think that > > > > > part of my message was completely lost on Vam, as (I think!?) he took > > > > > offense to the fact that Islam protects some people and not others--in > > > > > particular, Hindus. But Shari'a DOES accept 'Brahman' as being an > > > > > equivalent name for Allah, as both are monotheistic Gods and Shari'a > > > > > does accept Advaita Vedanta (the particular Hindu faith to which Vam > > > > > ascribes) as being the 'proper', originally intended Hindu viewpoint > > > > > and recognises that the polytheistic views were a later 'dis- > > > > > integration' > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
