I guess I must do. If time is a function of matter, I.E a measurement of decay of matter, then it must have started the same time that the universe did and will thus end when the universe does.
On May 4, 7:14 am, the taoist shaman <[email protected]> wrote: > lee , do u veiw time as having a begining and an end , and therefore > view it as a mesurment of decay ? > > > > [email protected] wrote: > > Hahahah OM old chap, you and I have been round and around on manny > > matters, as you say though this is just fine. > > > Yes of course the perception of time is a construct of human thought, > > it is as I say the way we measure decay. > > > Yes of course if we do not project time upon the eternity then time > > cease to have any meaning. > > > Yet all that we know is contained in the universe and it is clear that > > within this universe time exists independant of human thought. > > > All that is physical, all that is matter is subject to decay at a > > certian rate, this is time working. > > > Do you belive then that whatever is apart from the universe does not > > come under the juristriction of time? Are you saying that this thing > > we call God in some places is not subject to time, and that this is > > also true of anything not composed of matter but spirit instead? If > > so then obviously I agree. > > > I must though disagree with you about concepts not existing without > > somebody to concive of them. Sure I could probably think of a concept > > or two where this is applicable, time though isnot one of them. > > > Before the Earth cooled down enough for life to start here a period of > > time had passed, and although nobody was there to measure how much > > time had passed, we can now do just that. > > > Time then like light, exists independant of a mind to think of it. In > > fact are not all concepts our striving to understand what it is we > > sense around us? There must then be forces to sense for us tho strive > > to understand. Language is just labels we attach to things to enable > > us to communicate about them. Are you really saying these things > > would not exist if there where no mouths to utter the labels? Naaaa I > > do not think that is what you are saying. > > > On May 3, 2:09 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Lee, we've gone round and round about 'no-time' on more than one > > > occasion and in different forums. > > > > So, I have little hope in making this notion acceptable to you which > > > is just fine. > > > > This can be approached on many levels. One is when one is talking > > > about how long things exist, yes, all things have a beginning and an > > > end. *Things*...such as planets, people, thoughts etc. > > > > Yet, if for just a moment we don't project this temporariness upon the > > > eternity which is obvious to many, when one is in eternity, time just > > > doesn't have any meaning at all. No beginning - No end. > > > > On a different level...at least a little different...you suggest that > > > time will exist w/o people. This too, on one level is correct; > > > however, I suggest that the very idea of time is found only within > > > human thinking. No humans, no concept of time. Yes, one can *guess* > > > that things will continue to come and go...but the very idea of 'time' > > > just doesn't exist without a mind. The same is true for all other > > > ideas: planet, chin, hairs (gray or black), time, universe, mirror, > > > science, years, numbers, people...even "Lee" is but a concept thought > > > about. No thinking, no "Lee" (or any of the other things listed). > > > > On May 3, 5:56 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > That's along the lines of the questions asked myself before deciding > > > > on my stance. > > > > > Time would go by if there was nobody there to percive it doing so. > > > > Indeed science would have the time pass since our universe started as > > > > several billion years. > > > > > When I look in the mirror I can see that time has passed, in the new > > > > lines in my face, in the ever increasing grey hairs on my head and on > > > > my chin. > > > > > I don't understand this 'there is no time' though OM, care to explian > > > > that one? > > > > > On May 3, 1:40 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > TTS, I suggest that this isn't an either/or issue. Time as we perceive > > > > > it can be both. While in any ultimate sense, there is no time most of > > > > > us do wear watches and/or use clocks. It is a matter of level of > > > > > perception and we are able to perceive from more than one level at a > > > > > time. > > > > > > On May 3, 12:55 am, the taoist shaman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > is time real or an illusion created by change ? if indeed time is > > > > > > an > > > > > > illusion created by change shurely this must have meaning, some > > > > > > ramification on , at the least, the way we preceive ourselves and > > > > > > our > > > > > > universe to which we are a part . if so what is the effect of this > > > > > > altered preception?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
