murder:taking the the life of the innocent ; killings:the lost of life in contest or dual!! one can not base their concept of good and evil on simply this . death occurs , its' absolute ; just as the ground reclaims the fruits produce there-of. make no mistake there is nothing evil in death : its' sorta like the greastest passage of life ...still do not deny the goodness of life!!
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Lee Douglas <[email protected]>wrote: > Umm that is an interesting take on it Tony. > > I'm a great beliver in the right of the individual to live life how > they wish to. It comes as a by product of my other great belife yep > the 'Golden Rule' so I must disagree with you about not allowing > individuals to cuase unhappiness. > > If an individual wishes to life a live causeing unhappiness for all > then that is their choice and they must then take the consequences of > that choice, if that be prison or violence or whatever. I would not > curtail this right of the individual but then again, I would personly > make the choice to counter this individuals actions if turned against > me or mine, and I don't doubt that others would make the same choice > that I would. > > I also doubt the power of murder to change thinks for the worst for > the majority of people, the rate of murder is overall really not that > high, so I must also disagree with you on that score. > > For me the evilness of murder stems not from taking somebody elses > life, after all we are all destined to die, so death in and of itself > I can't see as an evil thing. Nope for me it is the taking away from > somebody all future choices, this I think is a great evil. > > To make a man a slave does the same. Again all attributed to my > belife in the golden rule. > > > > On Jul 14, 1:49 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Jul 12, 5:02 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Hey Tony, > > > > > Indeed and I would go further and say that good and evil are wholey > > > subjective. > > > > > Ben declares that murder is normaly counted as evil, but sometimes it > > > serves the greater good. I would ask you all to consider why exaclty > > > is it that the majority agree with this. > > > > > In short why is murder evil? > > > > Because we desire stability in society, and murder causes pain and > > discord, making societal progress hard for us all. Is the murderer > > evil? No, I think the murderer is sick, but society must hold the > > individual accountable for their actions in some sense, or it will > > collapse into chaos. One cannot allow individuals to cause unhappiness > > for everyone else, or no one will be happy. > > > > Peace, > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 6:31 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ben - > > > > > > A good question, and not one that I haven't spent much time > > > > considering. Here are my thoughts. > > > > > > One many levels, good and evil are subjective. When a cheetah kills a > > > > gazelle, that is good in the cheetah's eye and evil in the gazelle's. > > > > Indeed, our sense of what is good or bad rests first in personal > > > > pleasure and pain, and as we mature, is extended by association to > > > > include that which helps or hurts an object of attachment. For the > > > > rich, the current financial situation is good, and for the many poor > > > > it is evil. One's personal judgment is generally dependent on their > > > > perspective. > > > > > > One the other hand, if we assume some greater good, then actions > which > > > > encourage it are good, and those that set it back or hurt it are bad > > > > or even evil. For instance, for those that believe in evolution and > > > > would rather be a trillion human cells able to think on our level > > > > rather than a pool of algae, evolution may be viewed as a universally > > > > good thing. Actions that encourage it are good and those that impede > > > > it are bad. Since evolution happens on all levels, from stars to > > > > physical organism to minds and memes, one may view this as a > universal > > > > good. Of course, this depends on whether one personally believes in > > > > evolution, so again, even this objective good is subjectively > > > > estimated by the individual. > > > > > > Hope that was a valuable contribution. Have a nice day > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > On Jul 8, 11:16 pm, Ben <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I do not believe that we can define good and evil without entering > > > > > into a philosophical conversation. > > > > > > > Good and evil are not absolute rules nor can there be a universal > good > > > > > or a universal evil. > > > > > The concept of what is good and what is evil must be taught to us > as a > > > > > child, because we are not born inherently good or evil. > > > > > > > To murder is bad. However the statement does not speak of a > universal > > > > > good. Murder in so many cases has been used in good ways. > > > > > Euthanization has been used to end a suffering patients life. > Abortion > > > > > has been used to prevent a child from being born when childbirth > could > > > > > end a mothers life. To murder is bad in many cases but not all. The > > > > > extreme case of the word murder means to kill another human being > > > > > under conditions specifically covered in law. We can not define > murder > > > > > without discussing the implications. There are many instances where > > > > > murder must be re-defined as a good not a bad. > > > > > > > A child is not born inherently good or evil. Human beings are > unique > > > > > in the power of our brain. We are able to quickly associate good > and > > > > > bad. These associations are learned from society, our elders and > > > > > peers. A child that is born with no contact from these influences > will > > > > > associate good and evil with pain and suffering. A child with > contact > > > > > from these influences will be able to conceptualize good and evil > and > > > > > apply it to many different aspects of everyday life. > > > > > > > Finally, no universal good or evil will ever be agreed upon. There > is > > > > > no absolute good or bad that we must all follow. One concept can > > > > > impede on another and we must accept those societies that have a > > > > > rational way of thinking. Each society must continue to evolve > these > > > > > rules and change the commandments that were made centuries ago to > fit > > > > > the present day reality of life. To murder is bad, however we live > in > > > > > a civilized county in which many cases of murder are legal because > > > > > they are good. No one is born inherently good or evil and our > society > > > > > must continue to define every aspect of what could be good or bad > in > > > > > order to teach our children and they to develop their own, more > > > > > complete understanding to be taught to their children. > > > > > > > I challenge those of you who have read this to define an absolute > good > > > > > and evil. > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Ben Kaylor- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - -- Howard Lee Mosely Jr.
