I do not belive all people would work for these things make sacrifices and be likely to be happy at all.
We can see that so far Communism has not really worked. I agree that we must as a society look after those less abelt o look after themselves, but we need to be very carefull indeed that we do not create a sociaty of spongers. On Sep 16, 3:39 pm, James Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > I believe in cradle to the grave social securities, and that is > something that should be on offer. People will work for these things, > make sacrifices, and likely be happy about it if they have a sense of > it helping to strengthen society. I think many people would work > harder and even be willing to work smarter if there were tangible > results, if that work pays into the social securities and societal > infrastructure and benefits the individual at the same time- what more > could one ask for? Of course one could ask for more, and that is why I > think we should have a dual economy- we obviously cannot trust the > politicians, lobbyists, and corporate interests to factor human beings > and the well being of society into their bottom line we need something > to compensate for this. We need a progressive social plan that > tenaciously pursues social stability, security, sustainability, and > excellence from the bottom to the top and across the board for near > and long term objectives. It should be an option. > > I am playing out hundreds of scenarios trying to solve the hard > questions like the one you have raised Rigsy and there is no easy way > out. I'm not omniscient either, actually battling with mental tumult > and exhaustion in the process. It brings up the inconvenient truths > such as who makes the decisions, who benefits and who is at a loss- it > boils down to representation- should it? Even by pursuing a principled > hierarchial weighting system to benefit the maximum number to the > maximum degree over a temporal timeline some will be disadvantaged > (lest we throw everything we have at each person in line)- it is > obvious any workable system would account for need and availability, > after identifying those ends part of the second task would be > identifying where the current system lies in those terms and creating > a context shift. It may turn out that everyone could live a longer and > more fulfilling life consuming half of the current resources (or less) > but it will take some intelligence to identify how to make it a > reality and the systems required to secure this future and eliminate > the implicit wastes that siphon off our collective human potential. > Though everything isn't clear to me, I've developed a strong belief > that we can achieve these ends and that we must if we wish to survive > the challenges in our indefinite future. > > > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:51 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > So- are you for "death panels"? Some day you will wake up and not be > > so "new" anymore. > > > On Sep 16, 1:40 am, James Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > >> My mother in law went to school with Mike, said he was a jerk or > >> something like that. I thought it was a riot the way he showed our > >> hometown, a highschooler then. > > >> Elsewhere, Archytas mentions this being the only game in town and I > >> wonder facing the situational characterizations Moore lists what > >> options does one have? I mean we either play their game or lose, > >> period. Sure regions can begin to resist by conserving resources > >> through internal trade and services but in the end everybody has to > >> pay the tax man, tuition, fuel, etc. It makes me think we are all > >> under the spell of a mass narcotic. I would like to see the rise of a > >> dual economy come out of this disaster, one independent (the current > >> model) and one social (remove gov't assistance from the old and apply > >> to the new). The purpose of the social will be to fuel the improvement > >> of society as a whole through massive public works projects like > >> education, mentorship, health and care of those in need, removal of > >> poverty and mitigation of its effects through quality individualized > >> social reeducation programs beginning with relocation, therapeutic > >> exercise (learning/gaining skills) and exposure to positive > >> reinforcement. Sounds scary? > > >> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:19 AM, ornamentalmind > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Yes rigsy, the short lived US middle class is all but gone...and it is > >> > no accident. > > >> >http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/06 > > >> > Hyperbole, perhaps. Directly applicable?... absolutely! > > >> > On Aug 27, 6:29 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> The middle class is shrinking- the class that drives an economy. > > >> >> Greece is not a good example. Libya is a wealthy country- sweet crude, > >> >> investments around the world=cash. Now the clean up crew will clean up > >> >> with new oil contracts and rebuilding a ruined infrastructure all in > >> >> the name of liberty and freedom as per the examples of Iraq and > >> >> Afghanistan plus we have "miles"/countries to go, as Frost put it. > > >> >> On Aug 27, 2:12 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > Banks are lying about money laundering - > >> >> > seehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs > >> >> > - as an example. They are also hiding losses illegally through > >> >> > massive false accounting that has been 'made legal'. The basic scam > >> >> > is similar to the alleged 'rogue trading' that brought down Barings - > >> >> > losses are being moved around through subsidiaries and the ability to > >> >> > 'mark to model' (instead of market) on assets - hence Bank of America > >> >> > is claiming to be worth $325 billion but is only trading at £65 > >> >> > billion on the exchanges. > >> >> > What we probably have is the near certainty of bank collapses. We are > >> >> > currently funding these bent operations instead of going to full > >> >> > employment and wealth redistribution to prevent recession. > >> >> > Banks have sprung up all around the European drug routes for no other > >> >> > explicable reason (just like Miami in the past). > > >> >> > There is no reason for a global recession, but that's different from > >> >> > whether one is being engineered. The Greeks are currently being > >> >> > pilloried as having wasted all the money 'we' lent them - but who made > >> >> > the decisions to pile money in there rather than into factories or > >> >> > whatever? Not only is cash hard to track as Rigsby says - one can't > >> >> > even track through bank accounts of their own assets, much of which > >> >> > are junk but claimed, via securitisation as 'real'. > > >> >> > On Aug 27, 1:31 am, "Howard Lee Mosely Jr." <[email protected]> > >> >> > wrote: > > >> >> > > people are at a point where there own person and security is for > >> >> > > more > >> >> > > value is worth more than loyality to at state : or organizatoin : > >> >> > > morals and > >> >> > > manners discarded for more of a authorized control to ease a > >> >> > > subconcious > >> >> > > rebeling of a hibitaully slaved mindstate than the sence of being > >> >> > > govern > >> >> > > seems adverse to a widen culturaled soicity where humanity over > >> >> > > powers > >> >> > > human error and misplaced hatreds for the presevation of all kind > >> >> > > humankind > >> >> > > ?? > > >> >> > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:12 AM, paradox <[email protected]> > >> >> > > wrote: > >> >> > > > Recently, i read of an "authority" on institutional debt proclaim > >> >> > > > that > >> >> > > > a global recession was now inevitable. My first thought was that > >> >> > > > this > >> >> > > > was something of a curious "God like" statement, which was > >> >> > > > actually > >> >> > > > plain and simply wrong. There is actually next to no risk of a > >> >> > > > global > >> >> > > > recession. > > >> >> > > > How do they get away with stuff like this, i wonder? > > >> >> > > -- > >> >> > > Howard Lee Mosely Jr.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> > - Show quoted text - > > >> -- > >> Please do not put me on forwarding lists or submit my address to cute > >> online greetings or anything else for that matter. If you must, please > >> forward me in BCC and send me a link to cute greetings. Many thanks!- Hide > >> quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
