I had a friend that worked for a chinese company and his comments are not good. the main one being he was amazed at their total dishonesty even among themselves. Allan
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 4:57 AM, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > This op. ed. piece is relevant to the subject. The writer is a former SEIU > president, Mr. Andy Stern. > > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204630904577056490023451980.html?mod=opinion_newsreel > > In the likely event you can't read this due to the WSJ's annoying > proprietary policy(damn Capitalists) I have pasted it below. I don't > entirely disagree with the man but I do wonder at his admiration of China. > I wonder what he would say if I suggested we lower our minimum wage to > something along the lines of China's to help spur our comeback? Do ya think > he might choke? > > > Andy Grove, the founder and chairman of Intel, provocatively wrote in > Businessweek last year that, "Our fundamental economic beliefs, which we > have elevated from a conviction based on observation to an unquestioned > truism, is that the free market is the best of all economic systems—the > freer the better. Our generation has seen the decisive victory of > free-market principles over planned economies. So we stick with this belief > largely oblivious to emerging evidence that while free markets beat planned > economies, there may be room for a modification that is even better." > > The past few weeks have proven Mr. Grove's point, as our relations with > China, and that country's impact on America's future, came to the forefront > of American politics. Our inert Senate, while preparing for the super > committee to fail, crossed the normally insurmountable political divide to > pass legislation to address China's currency manipulation. Secretary of > State Hillary Clinton, former Gov. Mitt Romney and President Barack Obama > all weighed in with their views—ranging from warnings that China must "end > unfair discrimination" (Mrs. Clinton) to complaints that the U.S. has "been > played like a fiddle" (Mr. Romney) and that China needs to stop "gaming" > the international system (Mr. Obama). > > As this was happening, I was part of a U.S.-China dialogue—a trip > organized by the China-United States Exchange Foundation and the Center for > American Progress—with high-ranking Chinese government officials, both past > and present. For me, the tension resulting from the chorus of American > criticism paled in significance compared to reading the emerging outline of > China's 12th five-year plan. The aims: a 7% annual economic growth rate; a > $640 billion investment in renewable energy; construction of six million > homes; and expanding next-generation IT, clean-energy vehicles, > biotechnology, high-end manufacturing and environmental protection—all > while promoting social equity and rural development. > > Some Americans are drawing lessons from this. Last month, the China Daily > quoted Orville Schell, who directs the Center on U.S.-China Relations at > the Asia Society, as saying: "I think we have come to realize the ability > to plan is exactly what is missing in America." The article also noted that > Robert Engle, who won a Nobel Prize in 2003 for economics, has said that > while China is making five-year plans for the next generation, Americans > are planning only for the next election. > > The world has been made "flat" by the technological miracles of Andy > Grove, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. This has forced all institutions to > confront what is clearly the third economic revolution in world history. > The Agricultural Revolution was a roughly 3,000-year transition, the > Industrial Revolution lasted 300 years, and this technology-led Global > Revolution will take only 30-odd years. No single generation has witnessed > so much change in a single lifetime. > The current debates about China's currency, the trade imbalance, our > debt and China's excessive use of pirated American intellectual property > are evidence that the Global Revolution—coupled with Deng Xiaoping's > government-led, growth-oriented reforms—has created the planet's > second-largest economy. It's on a clear trajectory to knock America off its > perch by 2025. > > As Andy Grove so presciently articulated in the July 1, 2010, issue of > Businessweek, the economies of China, Singapore, Germany, Brazil and India > have demonstrated "that a plan for job creation must be the number-one > objective of state economic policy; and that the government must play a > strategic role in setting the priorities and arraying the forces of > organization necessary to achieve this goal." > > The conservative-preferred, free-market fundamentalist, shareholder-only > model—so successful in the 20th century—is being thrown onto the trash heap > of history in the 21st century. In an era when countries need to become > economic teams, Team USA's results—a jobless decade, 30 years of flat > median wages, a trade deficit, a shrinking middle class and phenomenal > gains in wealth but only for the top 1%—are pathetic. > > This should motivate leaders to rethink, rather than double down on an > empirically failing free-market extremism. As painful and humbling as it > may be, America needs to do what a once-dominant business or sports team > would do when the tide turns: study the ingredients of its competitors' > success. > > While we debate, Team China rolls on. Our delegation witnessed China's > people-oriented development in Chongqing, a city of 32 million in Western > China, which is led by an aggressive and popular Communist Party leader—Bo > Xilai. A skyline of cranes are building roughly 1.5 million square feet of > usable floor space daily—including, our delegation was told, 700,000 units > of public housing annually. > > Meanwhile, the Chinese government can boast that it has established in > Western China an economic zone for cloud computing and automotive and > aerospace production resulting in 12.5% annual growth and 49% growth in > annual tax revenue, with wages rising more than 10% a year. > > For those of us who love this country and believe America has every asset > it needs to remain the No. 1 economic engine of the world, it is troubling > that we have no plan—and substitute a demonization of government and > worship of the free market at a historical moment that requires a > rethinking of both those beliefs. > > America needs to embrace a plan for growth and innovation, with a > streamlined government as a partner with the private sector. Economic > revolutions require institutions to change and maybe make history, because > if they stick to the status quo they soon become history. Our great > country, which sparked and wants to lead this global revolution, needs a > forward looking, long-term economic plan. > > The imperative for change is simple. As Andy Grove pointed out: "If we > want to remain a leading economy, we change on our own, or change will > continue to be forced upon us." > > *Mr. Stern was president of the Service Employees International Union > (SEIU) and is now a senior fellow at Columbia University's Richman Center. > * > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:40 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Another of many historical missed opportunities was post WWII as the >>> USA was faced with the Cold War and one of our major tactics against >>> Communism was consumerism and a rising middle class income but as we >>> see, it ran amok. >>> >> >> Due to excessive borrowing. Both by individuals and our goverment. Our >> government encouraged lending to those least able to repay. Thus the >> sub-prime debacle. If banks were expected to take their losses when they >> didn't get their loans repayed we wouldn't be in this mess right now. They >> KNEW they'd be bailed out. There was never any question about it. Freakin' >> GSEs. >> >> There is nothing wrong with consumerism per se. The problems come from >> massive debt. I get so frustrated when liberals are completely blind to the >> cause of our troubles and therefore resistant to the solution. Austerity. >> The sooner, the better. >> >> dj >> >> >>> >>> On Dec 1, 5:08 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > I hate mumble mumble economics.. >>> > to clear up the confusion >>> > Economics is based off 3 questions >>> > 1: What will be produced with resources. >>> > 2:How will the productes be produced >>> > 3: for whom will these products be produced >>> > >>> > There are only 4 types of economy >>> > 1: Traditional -- answers there 3 question based on social customs and >>> how >>> > society has dealt with them in the past. >>> > 2: Market these questions are answered by the interaction between >>> buyers >>> > and sellers. >>> > 3: Command economy and questions are answered by the government. >>> > 4:Mixed economy answers these question by a mixture of the other three >>> > economic systems.. >>> > >>> > Bookkeeping is not an economic system.. it just tells you where your >>> money >>> > is coming from and going to.. >>> > >>> > My comments adding to the confusion, but I hope it is not mumble mumble >>> > economics >>> > >>> > Now how and what do we want the economic system to evolve into.. be >>> aware >>> > what works for one area does not necessarily work in another.. and >>> debt >>> > economics is not a economic system just greedy people trying to steal >>> more >>> > money. >>> > Allan >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > > Good flicks and interesting but after watching the movie it seems >>> they >>> > > got into repeating what was said.. >>> > >>> > > I agree economics needs to change,, now comes the deadly question,, >>> just >>> > > how are they purposing to change it?? Sorry just saying it needs to >>> change >>> > > and stating the obvious is not saying how it should change. >>> > > Allan >>> > >>> > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:37 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>http://econ4.org/news- has a video on "greed" (economics). >>> > >>> > >> On Nov 30, 10:34 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >> > We've been feeding a stray cat for a few weeks - one might say he >>> eats >>> > >> > greedily but we don't mean this as greed - the poor blighter is >>> just >>> > >> > hungry. Lions will give up a decent shank of a kill around human >>> > >> > breakfast time - try to take the whole hog and they will kill. >>> The >>> > >> > dream of western capitalism is very greedy. Send paracetamol Vam >>> - >>> > >> > before I go on and on about the term greed in use! >>> > >>> > >> > On Nov 30, 6:53 pm, monkebus <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >> > >. Exactly. >>> > >>> > > -- >>> > > ( >>> > > ) >>> > > |_D Allan >>> > >>> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > ( >>> > ) >>> > |_D Allan >>> > >>> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text - >>> > >>> > - Show quoted text - >>> >> >> > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
