According to christian theology in the beginning was God and the word was with in God. The Word begat the universe..
What can i say except the Total Presence has a highly active imagination.. long before I came into existence.. تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: archytas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination How anything is made of nothing certainly exercises the imagination - maybe we have to stop thinking about creation as a necessary part if this? On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 7:21:54 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > To try and understand the presents you have to use your imagination to get > ideas to make sense.. an example might me trying understand how everything > is made from the essence of the Presence and separate at the same time if i > can visualize the Presence being our solar system.. i then can imagine each > planet being totally separate and at the same time total dependent on solar > system to exist. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: Molly <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > Your last sentence is a great one, Allan. How is your imagination used in > what you describe there? > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 12:02:55 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> He sounds like a lot of people I have listen to over the years. More than >> a few have played it for the money angle, sadly.. for them my favorite >> bible verses are "He went and hung himself . . . Go do thou likewise." Let >> see the first part comes from Judas betrayal of Jesus and the second part >> from the story of the good sarmeratan (sp). There is a lot of crafting to >> reach the desired goal as i tried to demonstrate. >> >> There is a lot of guidance for spiritual development... but i have >> problem with the every verse rhetoric..especially in english.. the >> reasoning is the english language structure is based off the paragraph or >> the complete thought. Often times the sentence creates only a partial idea. >> To many people try to justify their bad behavior and actions as spiritual >> guidance.. >> >> There are good guidelines ten commandments. Jesus love your neighbor as >> yourself .. stories demonstrating examples of proper behavior but not >> written step by step instruction. Recently the perspective came forward >> that there is a highway to hell and a staircase to Heaven.. that just >> demonstrates the expected traffic flow. >> >> For me spirituality is developing and demonstrating the soul's >> connection with the Presence.. that connection determines your position >> within the mandala of the Totality of the Presence. Which is beyond my >> ability to comprehend. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Molly <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 2:31 PM >> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination >> >> I think much of what is in the public domain is crafted instead of >> created, and crafted to sell, so crafted to gain audience action (that >> converts to money for someone.) That takes skill, but little imagination. >> >> I originally discovered Neville when I was exploring the notion of >> resurrection, and he wrote a lecture called Resurrection that is I think, >> his masterpiece and I have yet to understand. Like Hermann Hesse's Glass >> Bead Game, the culmination of his life's work. I read it over and over and >> it means something different each time and I understand it more over time. >> My husband and I both then read the body of his work from beginning to end >> and could understand better the development of his life's work. When >> Neville moved from his earlier message that "Your Faith is Your Fortune" to >> "Immortal Man" he began losing his audience, at least those who were >> looking for get rich quick schemes or mind over matter techniques. His work >> moves his audience from duality (The Law) manifest to awareness of our >> infinite being, where life manifests for us very differently (The Promise). >> "All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within in your own >> wonderful human imagination of which this world of mortality is but a >> shadow." >> >> The wonderful thing about Neville, I think, is that he puts out the >> notion that the Lord is our imagination. A bold notion that left him >> lecturing to the walls at the end of his career. Living in the world of >> Cesar, or mortality, or duality, (The Law) we are chasing the laws of cause >> and effect that govern us. Recognition is all that is required of immortal >> man for manifestation, or non-dual awareness (The Promise) and imagination >> is the instrument within us all that takes us there. Because Neville sees >> every bible verse as an instruction on using imagination for divine >> revelation, those that cannot grasp this are lost in the rhetoric and >> connotation of "religion." For him, it is about imagination, not religion. >> Because I agree with him wholeheartedly on this one point, I find his body >> of work palatable. >> >> All of the christian mystics that I've read see scripture as a diagram >> for living. Neville is distinctive because of his treatment of imagination. >> I recognize truth in this notion, because my own imagination creates and >> reduces to simplicity for my own divine breakthroughs and recognition. In >> sleep and waking life. >> >> I am certainly not advocating his work as the be all end all for a study >> or discussion on imagination. But this one idea of his may be critical to >> any intimate dialogue of the subject. >> >> >> >> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 7:56:54 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>> >>> I guess my questions generally relate to critical absorption rather than >>> the passive. We have to know more about why so much in the public domain >>> is so bland, copied,ice-cream, beer, pets - and what imagination this >>> feeds. We might wonder where Habermas' communicative rationality >>> (whatever) shows up - where an imaginative lifeworld exists. >>> >>> Much that many feel as imaginative is actually produced by a few simple >>> rules. These can be embodied in machines, even to the point of narrative >>> generation. What can we imagine imaginative in the next action flick? Was >>> one war film made in 1943 and endlessly copied since? The mystics have had >>> a long run and there is certainly a core. I wonder on potential free play, >>> rather than institutionalized Utopia of imagination rules we embody in >>> genre and machine, whether metal or internal-organic. >>> >>> >>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 10:59:28 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>> >>>> It's more that I prefer what you say and demonstrate Molly. We have to >>>> hope in something simple, though it may emerge from complex work, perhaps >>>> the simplexity angle. The imagination, in many childhood studies, is >>>> connected with deception and, of course, in the wilderness. Otherwise, >>>> without nanoprobes we will never get Allan up to speed as a true heretic! >>>> Neville Goddard creates 'black boxes I don't need - they communicate >>>> quite >>>> well in a compelling logic but I'm left outside it. You don't do this and >>>> are more like Abbott, with his sense of humour. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the film spoiler Allan - I did try it for 5 minutes but felt >>>> it lacked imagination. I couldn't read Terry Pratchett or Harry Potter, >>>> even Lewis Carroll. Autistic people often lack the imagination we use in >>>> understanding others and perhaps the feelings to work back through. We >>>> don't all have to be singers from the same page. Religion can build >>>> socially approved epistemic authority, but needs to leave critical space. >>>> If we look outwards, much claimed as product of the imagination is dull >>>> copy. >>>> >>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 9:39:11 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You don't like many of my links, that's OK, don't mind. Yoga, Vedanta >>>>> and Kundalini, as mystical paths, all take feeling into the higher levels >>>>> of consciousness. I don't think the practice of the path matters. We all >>>>> have our own. I think that knowing the feeling, and returning through the >>>>> feeling, is an important way to explore and return to the highest states. >>>>> I >>>>> think the highest consensus state may be simple and silent as Allan >>>>> suggests, and I agree that it is how it feels to me also. >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 1:08:24 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I think Neville gets nearly everything wrong, proceeding by repeated >>>>>> assertions. He lacks a lot you have Molly. Tony and Rufus is >>>>>> instructive >>>>>> on who is imaging whom. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 4:50:43 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A state of feeling as the spark of life's continuity is worthy of a >>>>>>> lot of discussion and contemplation >>>>>>> http://www.feelingisthesecret.org/ >>>>>>> and Neville Goddard based his life's work on the notion that >>>>>>> putting ourselves into a state of consciousness with feeling is the >>>>>>> mechanism for the manifestation of reality. You will have to forgive, >>>>>>> because he is also a Christian mystic, siting biblical quotes with the >>>>>>> interpretation that they were clues to this secret. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not sure it was such a secret. Every mystical tradition says the >>>>>>> same thing in some form. And science does seem to be catching up. I am >>>>>>> ever in search of the original edition of Einstein's "The World As I >>>>>>> See >>>>>>> It" that was part of my university's rare book section and I could >>>>>>> often be >>>>>>> caught sitting in the isle reading it for inspiration. There are many >>>>>>> subsequent editions, none as good. He was a brilliant intellect and >>>>>>> spirit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 12:04:56 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The philosophy of an imagination looking outwards is fascinating, >>>>>>>> though relies on rather behaviourist tricks in some guises. Ludwig >>>>>>>> Fleck >>>>>>>> had some good stuff on what was out now being in, but whose is it >>>>>>>> questioning. It's interesting we had Feynman (who also loved his bee, >>>>>>>> wacky baccy and womanising), Waddington, Medawar, Horton, Soddy and >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>> others while social constructivists told us we were 'heartless >>>>>>>> positivists'. The wrong ideas on science still pertain, I think >>>>>>>> conflated >>>>>>>> with heartless bureaucracy and bossy versions of religion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The 'state of feeling' is worthy of a lot of discussion and >>>>>>>> contemplation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 2:43:50 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've saved the paper to read after my nap, Neil. Thanks. Scanning >>>>>>>>> it made me realize how hooked I am on visual organization with header >>>>>>>>> styles, bullet points and all the other nonsense. And how ridiculous >>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>> for it. I'm also intrigued that the paper references Feynman who I >>>>>>>>> love, >>>>>>>>> mostly because he plays bongos and loves his orange juice: >>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/2Ks8gsK22PA <https://youtu.be/2Ks8gsK22PA> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 10:11:15 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have an internal movie screen, though its presence is >>>>>>>>>> intermittent, sometimes glorious and once traumatic. The way we >>>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>>> information has multiple logics, including the way memory is not >>>>>>>>>> accurate >>>>>>>>>> in order to let us put different jigsaw pictures together for >>>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>>> futures. The universe itself may be doing something like this, with >>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>> having time backwards. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In a more simple way, imagination allows us to think things >>>>>>>>>> through, and personally I try what seems a reverse of Molly's >>>>>>>>>> embodiment - >>>>>>>>>> that of the embodiment of the human in machine. The idea is not to >>>>>>>>>> create >>>>>>>>>> androids, but rather imagination that can take us past current >>>>>>>>>> limitations >>>>>>>>>> and provide enhancement for human being. Imagination is one way to >>>>>>>>>> test in >>>>>>>>>> virtual reality and not get one's fingers burned. There are accounts >>>>>>>>>> of how >>>>>>>>>> experiencing a Van Gogh played a role in constructing the model of a >>>>>>>>>> galaxy. I even see similarities between Molly's treatment of >>>>>>>>>> non-believers >>>>>>>>>> and attempts to make the semantic web compatible in difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Fascinated by kaleidoscopes as a kid. Fascinated later by how >>>>>>>>>> machines could repeat simple equations at vast speed and produce >>>>>>>>>> patterns >>>>>>>>>> (fractals, chaos) doing something so mundane, yet rather like all 7 >>>>>>>>>> billion >>>>>>>>>> of us putting different number values into 2x = y at the same time >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> linking up the pattern. Imagination has a lot to do with pattern >>>>>>>>>> spotting. >>>>>>>>>> If Molly looks to spiritual awakening, I tend to look for cosmic >>>>>>>>>> code. >>>>>>>>>> Her methods may be introspective, but what was more introspective >>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>> Socrates' claim the knowledge was already in there and could be >>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>> through the right questions? I look out, though suspect these >>>>>>>>>> distinctions >>>>>>>>>> lapse in good sense, compassion and non-jealous integration. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tony turns some plumbing pipes and a mask into a static >>>>>>>>>> 'creature' that 'moves' with perspective and focus. I let it ride >>>>>>>>>> in my >>>>>>>>>> mind - though I could just hate him for his talent (I don't). I >>>>>>>>>> more the >>>>>>>>>> kind of chap who would borrow any left over pipe to keep the washing >>>>>>>>>> machine running. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any looking out is always experienced in the internal-virtual. >>>>>>>>>> We think the universe is beige. Space may be fluidic, elastic >>>>>>>>>> (more Hooke >>>>>>>>>> than Newton), potentially catapult-like so we could evade the >>>>>>>>>> limitations >>>>>>>>>> of space-time by standing still in moving space. Imaging outwards >>>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>> William Blake theme - >>>>>>>>>> http://ttj.sagepub.com/content/25/4/495.full.pdf - dramatic >>>>>>>>>> unveiling of the inter- action of varied human personalities, with >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>> gradual focusing of atten- tion upon the two major protagonists, and >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> its brilliantly skillful dis- closure of a symbolism which leads the >>>>>>>>>> imagination outwards in widening ... experiments in gender, both >>>>>>>>>> socially >>>>>>>>>> and artistically, can remind us all of the constant bravery >>>>>>>>>> necessary to >>>>>>>>>> force the universe of the imagination outwards. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Albert Einstein suggested that the elusive, additional element >>>>>>>>>> needed for high achievement in science is a "state of feeling" in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> researcher, which he called "akin to that of the religious worship >>>>>>>>>> per or >>>>>>>>>> of one who is in love," arising not from a deliberate decision or >>>>>>>>>> program >>>>>>>>>> but from a personal necessity. Others are more down to earth. With >>>>>>>>>> eloquent >>>>>>>>>> simplicity P. W. Bridgman wrote, "The scientific method, as far as >>>>>>>>>> it is a >>>>>>>>>> method, is nothing more than doing one's damnedest with one's mind, >>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>> holds barred." But as good as they are, neither remark nor the >>>>>>>>>> occasional >>>>>>>>>> anecdotal confession is much help for discovering what we are after. >>>>>>>>>> Peter >>>>>>>>>> Medawar put it this way, though a bit harshly: "It is of no use >>>>>>>>>> looking to >>>>>>>>>> scientific papers, for they not merely conceal but actively >>>>>>>>>> misrepresent >>>>>>>>>> the reasoning that goes into the work they describe... .Only >>>>>>>>>> unstudied >>>>>>>>>> evidence will do-and that means listening at the keyhole." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Free paper here - >>>>>>>>>> http://eppl604-autism-and-creativity.wmwikis.net/file/view/20013446.pdf/201762974/20013446.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Of course, imagining anyone will read so as to shake themselves >>>>>>>>>> from non-participation is imaginary. The self-importance of the >>>>>>>>>> petty >>>>>>>>>> gossip may be rather like a rabbit hole world. What we can imagine >>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>> already been warped by what is so easy to soak up from the 'garbage >>>>>>>>>> in' >>>>>>>>>> system, including not being able to get over oneself as the centre >>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>> universe. I was taught about the irrational and spasmodic nature of >>>>>>>>>> science from books written in and before the 60's. Molly is closer >>>>>>>>>> to this >>>>>>>>>> than the frauds pretending science is rational. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 12:02:58 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The idea of embodied imagination (Jungian) introduces the notion >>>>>>>>>>> that through dreams, imagination presents us with a complete >>>>>>>>>>> reality that >>>>>>>>>>> is different from our waking reality, not constrained by logic or >>>>>>>>>>> rationality, and based more on our individual archetypal system of >>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>> My latest thinking is that we carry this system into our waking >>>>>>>>>>> conscious >>>>>>>>>>> life, but are less aware of it because of the constraints our >>>>>>>>>>> rationality >>>>>>>>>>> imposes when awake. This system may be what calls us into a >>>>>>>>>>> spiritual >>>>>>>>>>> awakening to more fully integrate all levels of consciousness. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago I was invited (all expenses paid) to the Lucidity >>>>>>>>>>> Institute <http://lucidity.com/> in Hawaii for a month long >>>>>>>>>>> study in dreaming and consciousness. There have been a few >>>>>>>>>>> invitations I >>>>>>>>>>> regret not feeling free enough to accept in my life and this is >>>>>>>>>>> one, but my >>>>>>>>>>> mother in law was in hospice in our home and those love ties reign. >>>>>>>>>>> Even as >>>>>>>>>>> a kid I paid attention to my dreams and it has been for me, a life >>>>>>>>>>> long >>>>>>>>>>> fascination. It has led me to understand that there are states of >>>>>>>>>>> consciousness in both waking and sleeping that are the same peak >>>>>>>>>>> states, >>>>>>>>>>> just the movie on the screen has a different tone, like the >>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>> between Brooks' Blazing Saddles and Polanski's McBeth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think that imagination is the mechanism that puts the movie on >>>>>>>>>>> screen in all circumstances. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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