i'm sure you could fathom the idea that some people care more about streaming video on their browsers than address randomization, the same way some people care more about speedier local lookups to a stationary sync db than making sure a package has correct @want-lib by trashing the ftp server on every query
some of these people may even call the alternative they're not using "stupid" what does that do? nothing On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Marc Espie <es...@nerim.net> wrote: > On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 09:46:48AM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Marc Espie <es...@nerim.net> wrote: >> > On Fri, Jun 03, 2011 at 06:11:31PM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Marc Espie <es...@nerim.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> > How comes nobody in other OSes noticed ? Well, people probably did, and >> >> > tweaked their allocators to "work", by using preferably the low address >> >> > space, >> >> > and having addresses that increase slowly, so that a lot of pointers >> >> > are below >> >> > 4GB, and a lot of pointer diffs are under 4GB. >> > >> >> Or you could just be engaging in an ad hominem attack without actually >> >> looking at their implementations and assuming they're not doing it >> >> right because they're not you or your favorite platform. But hey, we >> >> don't know anyone who'd do *that* in the OpenBSD community. Right? >> > >> > Wrong. >> > >> > An ad hominem attack would require me asserting all this for a fact, which >> > is not what I'm doing. Notice the "probably" ? it makes all the difference >> > in the world. >> >> No, I'm afraid it really doesn't require "asserting the truth". To >> quote from Wikipedia, "An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for >> argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a >> negative characteristic or belief of the person advocating it" It's >> what I just did to you, in turn. How's it feel? >> >> An example or two would have lent powerful credence to your claim. The >> fix for mono, which Marc Espie notes in this thread, is a very >> powerful such indicator. > > I tend to publish findings early, when I don't have THAT many built > examples yet. There's also some teamwork, specifically, I don't personally > oversee everything in OpenBSD. Nobody does. But we do notice trends, and do > some design work based on that. > > You can call that "ad hominem" if you wish, do any kind of rhethoric. For me, > putting a "probably" in front of a working hypothesis is enough to go forward. > I expect the facts to be disputed, I don't care much for the rhethoric part o > it... > > I would even venture this is a fundamental activity for us to go forward. > If you lose yourself in gruntwork, you don't see the bigger picture. > Sometimes, we do have the luxury of saying "this is complete shit, it > shouldn't > work", and then we break bad software. > > On the other hand, "secure by default, runs GENERIC" is the other tenet of > our culture -> reproducible defaults, no need to tinker with configs to get > things to work, and also, proceed cautiously, do not invent stupid APIS when > we don't need to.
