This has nothing to do with OpenBSD. Please take your childish language flamewars to private email.
On Wed, 24 May 2006, Jonathan Weiss wrote: > Cheers, > > Adam wrote: > > On Wed, 24 May 2006 02:08:45 +0200 Jonathan Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > So Ruby is slower than Python for your application. > > > > No, it is slower than Python for everything. Every single basic function > > of the language is slower, conditionals, loops, instantiating objects, > > calling methods, indexing arrays, string mangling, etc, etc. Ignoring > > the benchmarks because they are benchmarks doesn't change this. > > > > > > > The author does not say that Ruby is slow > > > > Yes he does. Unlike the legions of mindless rails drones, Matz doesn't > > > > try to pretend ruby is perfect. Here's a slide from his presentation > > > > talking about what sucks about ruby: > > > > http://www.rubyist.net/~matz/slides/rc2003/mgp00004.html > > > This slide shows that Matz know's that Ruby is slow(er) but the important > > > question is how slow it is. > > > > Right, so as I said from the start, ruby is slow. And like I told you, > > even the author of ruby says ruby is slow. > > YEAH, RUBY IS SLOW. But the important question is how much slower for a > particular situation and if this is important compared with your productivity. > > > > > > The same argument can be made indeed be made for Ruby vs. Perl and in some > > > ways Python. Compare Ruby's OO vs. Perl's not to mention MetaProgramming > > > with Ruby. > > > > Just because perl's OO syntax is ugly, doesn't mean it makes using it > > slower. > > It's OO syntax is ugly and it slows you down while your code grows and grows. > If I have to look 5 minutes at one line of Perl in order to understand it, it > is slower in means of productivity. > > Ever looked into Ruby Meta Programming? > > > > > > I do not say that Ruby is incredible fast. I say that in most cases it > > > will be fast enough and you should benchmark yourself. Further I see great > > > increases in productivity, even compared with Python or Perl. > > > > No, you said its not slow. And it is slow. > > I said that just generally saying that "Ruby is slow" is an > oversimplification. Everything depends on the context. > > > > > > > Not true in my case. > > > > Because you are comparing writing CGIs in perl from scratch to using > > a framework like rails in ruby? > > > > No I'm comparing Djano, PHP Propel, Grails, Spring/Hibernate &co. > > > > Again, speaking from my experience Ruby on Rails is more productive than > > > Catalist or Django, but that depends on your application and skills. > > > > If you already know ruby, sure you will be faster in rails. If you know > > more than one of the languages in question, or none of them, then > > rails is not faster at all. > > I know Perl, PHP, Python, and Java and again I CODE FASTER IN RUBY. > > > > > > I am using Rails over a year now so I do not think that the hype got into > > > me. Maybe tha anti-hype got into you. > > > > Or maybe I want people to know the truth so they realize the downsides > > and can make an informed decision? > > A fine informed descision if you just critizise Ruby/Rails and start a flame > war. > > > You are clearly making up nonsense > > to claim rails is the greatest thing in existance. > > Ever actualy read what I wrote? > > > I am saying there's > > lots of frameworks that do the same thing just as well. Which is more > > likely based on buying into hype? If you want to think I have bought > > into all the common sense hype, go right ahead. > > > > > I can only restate that the discussion is pointless at this stage as none > > > of us will change its opinion and personal attacks are starting to replace > > > rational arguments. > > > > But it will help other people see that rails is not magical, or special, > > or even particularly good. Just because you've invested too much time > > to be willing to see reality, doesn't mean other people won't decide to > > look into things themselves. If someone realizes catalyst, maypole, > > django, fins, trails and nitro (and more) are out there too, then the > > discussion helped someone. Pretending rails is the second coming of > > christ does not help anyone. > > > I'm not saying that Rails is the second coming or that Django & co are not > worth a dime. I said that just saying that Ruby is slow is a too easy answer > and that Ruby/Rails make this up in productivity. Further in most cases your > bottleneck is not the language itself but I/O, databases or other remote > systems. > > You just do not want to understand and flame Rails. > > > > > Adam > > > > > > Jonathan
