Eliah Kagan wrote:
On 10/28/06, Breen Ouellette wrote:
The shame enters the picture when you place expectations for additional
output from the people giving freely. I see people griping all the time
for this or that feature, or support for this or that hardware. I see
this from people who contribute nothing and never will.
I see what you're saying. On the other hand, I'm not sure the shame is
less justified when people who do contribute place expectations for
additional output from the people giving freely. In fact, whether or
not such a person donates seems totally irrelevant to their placement
of unjustified expectations.
I agree with that totally. I just haven't encountered a person who
donates and treats it as a 'fee for future services', although I imagine
such people must exist. I am certain they would be shamed on the lists.
People complain
that certain hardware is not supported very well, but have they ever
written even one email to the vendor demanding open documentation? These
people should be ashamed, but of course they never will.
These people should be ashamed (if indeed it is ever true to say that
someone *should* experience some emotion...which it is not) because
they fail to exercise their own autonomy, instead begging others who
they see as being in positions of authority to magically fix the
situation. This has nothing to do with loyalty or duty to the OpenBSD
project, monetary or otherwise.
I disagree with this because OpenBSD developers have made their goals
clear, and magically fixing every problem thrown their way, especially
fixes for lazy/stupid problems, is not one of those goals.
However, I often see Linux or FreeBSD people writing about capturing a
larger user base by being receptive to the user base needs, and talking
as if they have to bend over backwards to try and accommodate user
requests to grow market share. I don't feel that Linux users whining and
complaining about 'missing' (aka unnecessary, superfluous) features is
shameful behaviour because it seems to be expected behaviour in these
communities, or at least segments of these communities.
I also disagree with your position because shame is not just a feeling -
it is also an action. Since shame may be inflicted by a community at
large on individuals which go against the culture of that community, it
is within reason to say that the behaviour we have been discussing is
shameful in the OpenBSD community. When someone comes in and complains
about something unreasonable to the OpenBSD community at large they are
often publicly shamed on these lists.
That same behaviour of expecting magic fixes, if it were applied to a
larger community like that of North America (sorry if you aren't from
this continent), would not be shameful in the least. People in North
American culture whine and complain for fixes from higher authorities
(governments, legal systems, corporations, gods, employers, unions, and
on and on) all the time without being shamed by those around them. In
fact, in most cases those around them agree wholeheartedly. How many
people in North America are proactive in their daily lives? I believe
the number is very few.
In my wife's home town in mainland China there is a plaque on the
temple. It lists the names of the heads of every household in the town
and how much money has been donated by that family for the upkeep of the
temple. Those who donate little to nothing are shamed by others in the
town. People will refuse to talk to them, or do business with them, or
help them in any way. They are called names and ridiculed where ever
they go. It is a powerful incentive for people to donate for the upkeep
of the temple, and people will put themselves in debt to make payments
and avoid the shame. It works so well that it is dysfunctional.
Should people who do not contribute to OpenBSD be shamed in this manner?
Probably not. It seems to lead to very insular communities with serious
problems (at least from what I have seen in China). However, if we
define new ways to shame those who deserve it, beyond badmouthing them
on this list, it could be beneficial to the OpenBSD project. Theo has
shown some success in shaming companies about their restrictive
policies. Perhaps there are other ways to use shaming to the advantage
of the project. Of course, it is a dangerous tool and could become a
major problem for the project as well.
Breeno
