Sorry Brian to sort of hijack this new thread; until late last night
I had no time to follow the original one and you don't attribute
your opponent.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:27 -0400, Brian Shackelford wrote:
> > > Correction, a professional OS that requires its users to be
> > > professionals. Not a bunch of whining windows update people
> > > that have to call "IT" to launch excel. In case you hadn't
> > > noticed we are old school UNIX users that don't mind fixing
> > > whatever problem is at hand.
> > > Including writing code or fixing a bug. This is why in the
> > > olden days your IT department was worth something and wasn't a
> > > bunch of monkeys reading a script.
> > > It is exactly your attitude that has ruined the computer industry.
> > You have an odd definition of professional, and the kind of
> > attitude that sounds like you haven't actually worked in the
> > computer industry in a while.
Dunno about Brian, I have been in the IT Business since 1969, I've
seen it developing. With the advent of personal computers it first
seemed that IT might provide real value to the masses. Anyone who
still remembers AmigaOS?
> > Generally, the computer industry is about providing services to end
> > users.
Correct, but: When m$ started to release unfinished products to meet a
deadline imposed by marketing they together with intel won the battle,
resulting in companies like digital equipment long ago or sgi not that
long ago disappearing from the market. Nowadays I can't buy a solidly
built computer anywhere, I have to design it by myself. In the old days
of microprocessors that used to be a managable task for a single person,
nowadays you have to find a large team of people capable of using their
own brains instead of following prescribed pathes.
> > And things like easy updates, specialisation of labour and all
> > of that kind of stuff have made us an awful lot better at taht than
> > 'old school UNIX' ever was.
*ROTFL* guess who developed most of that easy upgrade stuff e.g. for
Debian, every single person involved in that effort is an old style
Unix professional; I wasn't among them but having been an unimportant
Debian developer from '95 thru '04 I know them.
> You know it is interesting - having been in this industry for over 16
> years - to see the attitudes of so many "professionals" in the IT
> industry. I make my living by fixing all the problems many of these
> so-called professionals cause when the work on things. It is so very
> troubling to get phone calls from people that have been laid off from
> their "IT" job in some of the large corporations where they commanded
> huge salaries and now they have opened their own business and are
> calling us for support because they don't have a clue about what it
> takes to actually do the "work".
>
>
>
> I almost believe that the perception in this industry is if you can
> pronounce "server", "workstation", "network", "switch", "hard drive",
> and a few other "highly technical" (btw - the "" should be read with
> sarcasm for you Microsoft folks out there) terms, that it is acceptable
> to call yourself an IT professional. Fact of the matter is that I have
> become convinced that those that know how to actually TROUBLESHOOT
> problems are in the very small minority in this industry.
>
> Don't get me wrong - I am by no means complaining - for it is how I get
> paid. I am just sick of so-called professionals with Master's Degrees
> in IT telling me that they are right and I am wrong because they think
> pushing a few buttons and having a degree makes them smarter than some
> of us that earned our experience.
>
>
>
> Old School Unix = People that KNOW what they are doing. I work with
> Macs, PC's, Windows, Novell, Mac OS, Linux, Unix, Windows, DOS (Yes some
> customers still use this), THEOS (anyone else heard of that one???). I
> have the certifications to prove my knowledge - but none of that means
> bupkiss if I can't fix a problem I have never seen before. The strength
> of Old-School Unix folks is their resourcefulness in fixing the problems
> they are faced with - whether they have seen that specific problem or
> not - without having to whine to everyone that it just doesn't work. If
> there is a problem -they fix it - sometimes that means writing code or
> hacking together a solution. I can't begin to tell you how many times a
> client has a call into Microsoft and we fix the problem hours (if not
> days) before Microsoft calls back simply by actually troubleshooting and
> researching the problem. Sometimes this means we actually (gasp) edit
> the registry.....
>
>
>
> Now to bring this to the place of why this relates to OpenBSD. I love
> OpenBSD, we have some installs that have been in place for several years
> and I never even think about them. I lose sleep every night I go home
> when I think about all the Windows systems we manage, but I never even
> think about the OpenBSD boxes we have put in place. Performance - well
> three years running with no patches and never a problem and never been
> compromised. Let me see ANY other OS make that claim. Microsoft Server
> - connect to internet - compromised within minutes (actually happened to
> a customer of ours...)
>
>
>
> Sorry for the long-winded post. I am simply tired of reading whiny
> people complain about stuff they know nothing about. If you don't like
> it, don't use it. If you don't understand it, then don't use it - OR -
> (this might be earth shattering) take the time to LEARN to use it.
> There are lots of people here that will help when asked questions that
> show you have done your LEARNING BEFORE you ask. And how much did it
> cost you......?
>
>
>
> That is my $1.87 worth - flame me - stone me - whatever if you must -
> but again it is just one man's opinion.....
(+1)+
[sorry, I'd like to, but for now I have to snip this because of priorities]
Siggy (now trying to make a living from providing Ubuntu services to
uneducated users and glad to approach retirement)
--
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org+
|29 days until|bsb-at-psycho-dot-informationsanarchistik-dot-de|
|www.Ubucon.de|or: bsb-at-psycho-dot-i21k-dot-de|
+-------> ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam <--------+
[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had
a name of signature.asc]
