I bought my '91 GTI 16v in '92 with 9,000 miles on it for $11k. New I believe
it was $13-14k. I was deciding between the GTI and a Corrado G60 that had 22k
miles on it for $8k...
On Monday, December 14, 2015 7:59 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v
<[email protected]> wrote:
The new cars have developed almost to the point that even an experienced
driver isn't capable of driving them at the limit. The infatuation with time
around the Nurburgring is amusing and while it does have some correlation to
the real world, a tiny percentage of drivers are at that level let alone drive
like that on the street.
I've been playing various and sundry video games for amusement and find that
the ultra-fast cars aren't much fun in a game b/c they're simply too fast and
twitchy. Give me a low horsepower car that handles well and in the real world,
with similar skill sets, the slower car will win b/c the faster car is too hard
to drive fast without "great sadness".
On Monday, December 14, 2015 12:25 AM, Les Noriel <[email protected]>
wrote:
I did watch a video of a beautiful 2.0l 16V Ford powered Caterham run the
ring. It was a single lap recorded running against a Porsche 996 GT2. The
Porsche was far more powerful but the Caterham was much faster in the turns.
I'm sure the skill of the driver had much to do with its success too. The
Youtube video recorded a single lap and was 8:28 in length.
That Caterham is far more balanced setup for the track than our street cars and
it's Ford 2.0l is capable of 238hp
I'm sure Matthew's skill levels behind the wheel would be comfortable at those
speeds. I've only done competitive Kart racing which isn't anywhere near those
track speeds. I would likely have a heart attack taking those turns that fast!
Les
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Holland Phillips <[email protected]>
wrote:
I purchased my '92 GTI 16V with 15,900 miles at a VW dealership in 1994 for
$13,400. I think the MSRP new was close to $18K. A stock '91-'92 GTI 16V would
probably be lucky to break 20 minutes at the 'Ring. The cars that approach the
magical seven minute mark all have well in excess of 600hp, carbon ceramic
brakes, active aero dynamics, etc., and cost over $100K. The exception is the
Corvette Z06, with an MSRP of a little over $70K. Once you start approaching
the seven minute mark with a stock production car, the MSRP's can easily exceed
seven figures. McLaren P1, Pagani, Ferrari LaFerrari, Koenigsegg, Porsche 918,
blah blah blah. The current record for "production" cars is 6:48 for a Radical
SR8LM. Not your Grand Mother's grocery getter. ~HollandI ran across the
restoration thread from VWVortex which I previously mentioned. It is an 87 8V
GTI from Europe. The thread is rather long but he has done the restoration to
a very high level of quality with a huge number of hours dedicated to it.
Somehow he has more than one of these projects going on at the same time…
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4594833-VW-Golf-GTI-1987-restoration-project
About today’s driver’s cars – I am reminded about how much of a good deal
these cars were. A 1992 GTI 16V invoiced at ~$12,500 circa 1991 which in
today’s dollars is ~$22,000. You can’t even get a base model Golf these days
for that price, let alone the top of the line R. We also all know that
today’s cars are safer than ever. That safety comes at the cost of weight
which has to be overcome with more power from the engine. For a while
displacement was how this was achieved but with emmissions standards getting
more stringent turbocharging has been the only way to keep up for most
companies. All these things combine to reduce the raw feel of today’s cars as
compared to 80s cars. Sadly, they can never build cars like they used to in the
80s but I think we all have to admit that today’s cars are better than ever. I
wonder what a stock MK2 16V would do on the Nürburgring and how close it would
come to today’s sub-7-minute record times. -Larry91 GTI 16V From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 5:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] RE: Projects and Motivation I just read the tag lines
about the Vortex project GTi - it sounds way too much like cars I've owned for
me to be comfortable - lines like "The big bumpers...held on my sheet metal
screws to the small bumper rebar..." My original 8v car that was the recipient
of a 16v swap had Euro bumpers that were held on by a wing and a prayer - I
hadn't learned about JB Weld yet SO at least they were bolted on. It wasn't
until many years later when I had a Mk1 MR2 that I discovered how to use
Dura-Glass to "mold" fiberglass bumpers onto the bodywork instead of actually
bolting the covers to the car. I agree - no one collects old cars for reasons
other than aesthetics. As much as I'm nostalgic about my parents' 69 Beetle, I
can't say that I'm running out to buy one b/c I've driven lawn tractors and
they're fine, just not daily transportation. The Mk1 and Mk2 VWs are certainly
unique in their timeframe. BMWs in that timeframe were unique as well but
their disparity between what was and what is currently in production is
tremendous. VW's current production is certainly better than in the mid-80s
but VW has, to some small degree, stuck with their roots and produced a car
that (when compared to other cars in its price range) is a Driver's Car. That
said, nothing I've driven in the past 5 years could be remotely considered a
Driver's Car by an iron-butt such as myself. All new cars are squishy and soft
which is fine for the "motoring public". Gimme a car that actually has road
feel and the like - the closest I've seen is the BRZ but I'm not at liberty to
part with thirty-thousand of my hard-earned dollars for that little gem. I'd
rather spend those dollars in smaller chunks on older, more visceral but less
capable cars that are more rewarding to drive. On Friday, December 11, 2015
5:36 PM, Larry Velez <[email protected]> wrote: Les, Thanks for keeping up the
good fight! I hope this list helps people a little with motivation – I know
we all need a little of that. Do let VW Heritage know that there is a market
here for Mk2 parts and that many of us would be buying them if they were
available… Mathew is right there are better cars today but people don’t collect
1920s Fords because they are good cars – they collect and restore them because
they are awesome to them. We have the benefit that we can actually drive our
collector cars at 100 MPH without it falling apart. I think modern classics
are the best of both worlds and you can enjoy them much more than a 53 Porsche
that does not have enough power to get up a hill.. I think we are just getting
into the hype for our cars growing. The hype for BMWs of the same era has
already exploded and I think VWs of the era will ride some of that wave. This
will encourage aftermarket companies to start producing restoration parts so it
is easier for us to restore and maintain these cars. Here is some more
inspiration in case you had not already seen this:
http://www.vwvortex.com/features/project-cars/1985-volkswagen-gti-restoration/
There is another impressive thread for a white Mk2 on vortex where the guy has
done a true nut and bolt restoration with tons of new parts but I can’t find
that thread right now. -Larry91 GTI 16V From:[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Les Noriel
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 1:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] Interesting find in Jacksonville, FL Matthew makes a
good point. Cars have really evolved in the past two decades. Horsepower,
traction, and safety have all made significant advancements over the past few
years. In addition, Our culture has really grown accustomed to creature
comforts. I've not seen a car with manual window cranks in years. Power windows
and locks with remote key access are standard in virtually every vehicle sold
today. My two VW projects are crude by today's standards. Personally, I've
grown fond of the comforts of my Audi A4 which makes the interior of the old
MKIIs primitive by comparison. And it's ten years old! Like many of us, my car
projects have slowly progressed over a period of decades. My wife has allowed
me to use the garage for my projects rather than parking cars. But I do need to
finish them at some point. Parts are getting more difficult to find. There's
nothing I like more than seeing a MKII VW restored and driving on the road.
Sometimes I just need the time and motivation to keep progressing. I recently
peeked into my Golf 16V and noticed that the new fabric on the headliner which
I installed a few years back has fallen. *Sigh*! I was so proud of that
achievement but now seems like I'll have to go back to square one and do it
again. Recently, VW Heritage has asked me to critique some of their products
for Project MKII 16V and write it up in my project blog. So I'm looking through
their catalog now. It gives me something to rekindle the interest. -Les On
Dec 8, 2015, at 8:48 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v wrote:
Ah yes, the world of abandoned projects. My street car was a 97 Passat TDI
that is now for sale b/c of front-end damage. I can't bring myself to trash
the car even with 424K miles on the odo BUT it's valueless to anyone other than
a fanatic. Then again, I've met a Mk2 fanatic whose mission it seems is to
"save and restore all Mk2 VW products". As much as I like the cars, there are
newer and better cars in the world...(blasphemy, yes). On Tuesday, December
8, 2015 11:27 AM, Holland Phillips <[email protected]> wrote: I had a
'76 Mk1 that I was going to restore, probably into some sort of race/street
vehicle. It had a 1.6 8v motor with a terminal rod knock. Would have been cool
to put a fully modded 2.0 TSI motor in it, with a 6 speed, Quaife (sp?) etc.
It had a straight body with some surface rust, but that's about it. It sat in
my driveway almost 20 years, then finally got a free ride to the "Auto
Recycler".~HollandYes - The Mk2 Slorocco, especially the 16v was essentially a
very overweight Rabbit. I had one and it was tonnes of fun - not as visceral
as the Mk1 by any stretch of the imagination but much more connected than
anything VW has produced since that time frame. On Tuesday, December 8, 2015
10:53 AM, Holland Phillips <[email protected]> wrote: Matt,
I think you meant Mk 2 Scirocco, right?
'87 was Definitely Mk2...~HollandOn Dec 8, 2015 07:47, "'Matthew Yip' via
MK2-16v" <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a hard time with "restored" - these cars just don't seem that old to me
BUT they're almost 30 years old at this point!!! (Damn, I'm OLD too). I
should probably keep this to myself BUT as a non-sunroof car, this restoration
car would make a great racecar candidate (that is if the Mk1 Slorocco weren't
such an overweight pig). Matthew On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:36 AM, Jack
Simon <[email protected]> wrote:
http://bringatrailer.com/2015/12/07/nicely-restored-1987-volkswagen-scirocco-16v/
http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/5329045176.html
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/6373FBF4-C129-4AC6-B5FB-9A278540782C%40gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/901474498.164811.1449589458036.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/CABrbKBmawPDDU9PmjfTW1rHn727XzjUp5FF01tw0xJ91mUbuKw%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/1064130817.188804.1449590214845.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/CABrbKBmCzmtwCSAsOVTaVGZAJ_11762LKGc2nqrhqaG8MvQw2Q%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/571034975.199322.1449593317700.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/15996EEB-73BB-4F64-B64E-B35CBEF77BDD%40gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/127632b31a784dc2967cb3b8f750c9d5%40MBX082-E1-VA-2.EXCH082.SERVERPOD.NET.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/421298316.9616.1449874749598.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/fff064d0109c47ac8f1dd3accc16bc34%40MBX082-E1-VA-2.EXCH082.SERVERPOD.NET.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/CABrbKBndA%2BMtg53_JWLqCwk04WSYJwyGQ%2BV0KzvV7HUaZFWhCA%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/CAEpuu2Nm4jW8d7j_CLR27oD%2B9pJ-bT5GPDhNxx%3DFr3Dugr-fLw%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/1799461988.722139.1450105030378.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MK2-16v" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/mk2-16v.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/532410097.1117154.1450123603624.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
