well al i know is i have stampede running it quite fine!! lol when a buncha volunteers can get it working better than an ipo! lol where does the money flow my modperl status {perl-status} shows Embedded Perl version 5.00503 for Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_perl/1.19 on kernel 2.2.5 stampede 0.89 with modified perl from 0.90 comp'd myself now i compiled and installed apache and modperl myself the time taken to track down the source of this error in redhat has taken so much time i should have trusted my first insctinct and recompiled them myself! or used some other distribution! ttfn