Rather than develop and contribute the community the ideas used in integrating (IDE-app server-version store-job management) for the perl environment… you stop using perl for that.
This is *exactly* why people are not using mod_perl – perl lacks the investment given to these big projects that people ARE investing in with the java technology. There is nothing magical about java applied to this integration – perl could it it as well (or better, given lessons learned from the earlier take). Sorry if I sound a bit bitter, but this lack of investment in my favored technology frustrates me something fierce. You and your business/company may have the clout after 10 years of building large critical systems to have the resources to invest in actually DOING this, and you would rather move to java. (not that it’s the only reason to move to java, but it sounds like it’s the fallover difference) Sigh. David From: Steven Siebert [mailto:smsi...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:15 PM To: Jeff Nokes Cc: Brad Van Sickle; mod_perl list Subject: Re: Why people not using mod_perl I would also add, in addition to the frameworks, the availability of tools such as Netbeans and Eclipse IDE's are unmatched in the perl domain. These IDE's provide many high-level conveniences for enterprise developers, most notably in the realm of SOA (such as graphical building of BPEL and CEP). After nearly 10 years building and maintaining a critical government system, we are sadly migrating away from mod_perl to a J2EE based solution due to the success and growth of our mod_perl-based system. mod_perl and MySQL has served as well when we were taking on medium-to-large loads...however, as we are growing to a distributed (multi-site, multi-node) system, with tie-ins to numerous internal and external business systems across the enterprise, with development partners working at distributed factories...tools such as Netbeans and it's tight integration with Glassfish, SVN, and Hudson make building at this level a lot more manageable. I found that mod_perl for large-scale web applications works great, and if necessary horizontal scaling is achievable to sustain even more load. However, when dealing with complex SOA architectures, and the management of business workflows...the framework support and tools to accomplish this just aren't there in perl. Add to this Jeff's comment on the availability of high caliber perl engineers...we are almost forced to make this decision. We will continue to use mod_perl for other uses, such as our custom SCM/ALM system we built over the years...but the main product is migrating. On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Jeff Nokes <jeff_no...@yahoo.com<mailto:jeff_no...@yahoo.com>> wrote: Doesn't Amazon run mod_perl/Mason? BTW, I agree with most of your points (would debate #4,5). I may substitute the phrase "More convenient" for "Easier" in #3. I would also add ... #7) How many engineers are available to hire that know or want to work with said technology? I built a great platform at eBay on mod_perl/Mason that handled eBay-size traffic; we ran 6 eBay sites on it. Now it is used for specialty e-commerce solutions like worldofgood.ebay.com<http://worldofgood.ebay.com>, global.ebay.com<http://global.ebay.com> (cross-border trade), dealfinder.ebay.com<http://dealfinder.ebay.com>, etc. In fact, on the same hardware, the main eBay Java app would support ~6 threads per box; the mod_perl platform supported ~60 (prefork), significant CapEx and power savings (which adds up at a place like eBay). ________________________________ From: Brad Van Sickle <bvs7...@gmail.com<mailto:bvs7...@gmail.com>> To: mod_perl list <modperl@perl.apache.org<mailto:modperl@perl.apache.org>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:31:30 PM Subject: Re: Why people not using mod_perl This is a mod_perl list, so I would expect to see Perl championed pretty heavily, but Java, .net and there ilk are undoubtedly *the* choice for large web applications. I'd like to get into some discussion as to why almost all *large* sites choose these languages. I don't have any experience developing a large application in Java, although I do have a lot of experience working on the operations side of a large web application that is Java based. The reasons I generally hear for choosing Java over mod_perl are: 1) Speed - I don't buy this at all 2) Maintainability - I think this makes sense. Perl can be pretty easy to maintain if you stick a good framework around it, but you have to seek out that framework and YOU are responsible for adhereing to it. All of that is inherent in Java. It also helps that Java has OO built in. 3) Easier to package and build/move code - In my experience this is true. 4) Advantages to be gained from running on an actually application server - Also valid 5) Compatible enterprise class middleware - Also true, Java plugs into more truly enterprise level suff than Perl does. (security frameworks, etc... ) 6) Support A lot of the industry seems look at Perl as obsolete technology that has been replaced by *insert hot new technology of the week here* which is a total shame. I've worked with a lot of technologies and I think Perl is a great choice for small/medium websites and webapps, which is probably what most of us work on. But I'm very interested to know at what point (if any) a site/app grows too large or too complex for mod_perl and what defines that turning point. Could Amazon run on mod_perl for example? Phil Carmody wrote: --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Igor Chudov <ichu...@gmail.com><mailto:ichu...@gmail.com> wrote: My site algebra.com<http://algebra.com> is about 80,000 lines of mod_perl code. I wrote a relatively large framework, with many homegrown perl modules, about five years ago. It uses a database, image generation modules, a big mathematical engine that I wrote (that "shows work", unlike popular third party packages), etc. All pages of my site are dynamic and it is very image heavy due to math formulae. I can say two things: 1) It is relatively fast, serving pages in 0.1 seconds or so 2) Despite the quantity of code, and its age, it is still very maintainable and understandable (to me). In that case, would you like to fix its mangled output? e.g. http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework/divisibility/Prime_factorization_algorithm.wikipedia   (Redirected from Prime factorization algorithm) faster than O((1+ε)b) for all positive ε an integer M with 1 ≤ M ≤ N Pollard's p − 1 algorithm Section 4.5.4: Factoring into Primes, pp. 379–417. Chapter 5: Exponential Factoring Algorithms, pp. 191–226. Chapter 6: Subexponential Factoring Algorithms, pp. 227–284. Section 7.4: Elliptic curve method, pp. 301–313. Eric W. Weisstein, “RSA-640 Factored†v • d • e AKS · APR · Ballie–PSW · ECPP · Fermat · Lucas · Lucas–Lehmer · Lucas–Lehmer–Riesel · Proth's theorem · Pépin's · Solovay–Strassen · Miller–Rabin · Trial division Sieve of Atkin · Sieve of Eratosthenes · Sieve of Sundaram · Wheel factorization CFRAC · Dixon's · ECM · Euler's · Pollard's rho · P − 1 · P + 1 · QS · GNFS · SNFS · rational sieve · Fermat's · Shanks' square forms · Trial division · Shor's Ancient Egyptian multiplication · Aryabhata · Binary GCD · Chakravala · Euclidean · Extended Euclidean · integer relation algorithm · integer square root · Modular exponentiation · Schoof's · Shanks-Tonelli Looks like you've got utf8 and iso8859-1 messed up. Phil
