2010/1/17 Damian <[email protected]>: > Hi Graham, > > Thank you very much for that. I've reduced the number of threads per > process to the default 15. > > The apache webserver still serves static data - I have not gotten to a > point where we could shift that off to another machine which could > proxy our requests to the app server or just serve static data. I'm > not convinced it makes sense to run two webserver on the same machine.
Suggestions seem to be that it helps and on a technical level there are valid reasons why it helps. These include nginx being better at static files and because nginx isolates Apache from slow clients meaning you can provision less processes/threads in Apache, thus keeping down Apache memory usage and in the case of threads avoiding some of the scaling issues around the GIL and multiple threads and CPU cores. > I also run two sets of daemon processes - one in apaches 'https' > config and one in the non https config. I'm guessing it would make > more sense to run only one set of daemon processes for both the https/ > http version. At the moment I define two sets of wsgi process groups > one called bla, one called bla-ssl which have 4 processes with 15 > threads each. Yes, using one process group would be better. Just place the WSGIDaemonProcess directive inside the VirtualHost for that first in order in Apache configuration. The WSGIProcessGroup directive in the second VirtualHost can reference the daemon process group definition in the first as allowed to reference a definition in prior VirtualHost so long as ServerName is the same. > The website runs a javascript process that polls the site a second > after each request to deliver the latest information to the client. > Over 99% of these requests never touch the database and are server out > of memcached with little processing done by the wsgi app - these > requests take as little as 20ms to process. What I may be seeing here > could be the result of the 'dog pile effect' - when we change the > database we delete the memcached entry and it gets regenerated by the > next request. If enough requests come in simultaneously they probably > cause the sqlalchemy error - too many clients are trying to regenerate > the memcached data. > > Reducing the number of wsgi processes should reduce the effect as > requests will get queued by apache and we won't run out of > sqlalchemy's pooled connections. In the current setup we could be > seeing up to 80 simulataneous db queries (8 daemon processes * 10 > sqlachemy pooled connections). Does that sound realistic? If there is no locking around the cache check such that it is possible that a subsequent request will still trigger another database operation even though one may have already been started from another request, and you can get that many requests come in, in the time to do the database query, then yes, sounds entirely plausible. Graham > I should also try and see if I can cut down on the number of processes > and see if it still runs happily, and see if I can make the cache a > bit smarter to avoid dog-pile. > > Thanks a lot for your time! > Damian > > > > On Jan 15, 3:38 am, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> > wrote: >> 2010/1/15 Damian <[email protected]>: >> >> > Hi, >> >> > Every few days, when we experience higher loads we get sqlalchemy's >> >> > TimeoutError: QueuePool limit of size 5 overflow 10 reached, >> > connection timed out, timeout 30 >> >> I presume this is a postgres database client side error message, not >> on the database server. >> >> > Along with that I see an increase in (2-3 a minute): >> >> > (104)Connection reset by peer: core_output_filter: writing data to the >> > network >> >> > and >> >> > (32)Broken pipe: core_output_filter: writing data to the network >> >> > in my apache error logs. >> >> These errors would normally just indicate that HTTP client severed the >> connection before request complete. So, machine bogging down, users >> give up and possibly hit reload. >> >> > Having checked over my pylons code a few times, the Session.remove() >> > should always be called. >> >> Presumably you are using recent pyscopg2. The remove() method wasn't >> properly calling close. Fixed back in 2007. >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg05485.html >> >> > I'm worried that the broken pipe or >> > connection reset by peer mean that remove isn't being called. >> >> Even when client connection fails, mod_wsgi, will as WSGI >> specification requires, call close() on the iterable returned by the >> WSGI application. So, as long as WSGI application correct cleans up >> when close() called in that way, even if not all response could be >> returned, then should be okay. >> >> > The server is running mod_wsgi with apaches mpm_worker with the >> > following config: >> >> > <IfModule mpm_worker_module> >> > StartServers 16 >> > MaxClients 480 >> > MinSpareThreads 50 >> > MaxSpareThreads 300 >> > ThreadsPerChild 30 >> > MaxRequestsPerChild 0 >> > </IfModule> >> >> > and using mod_wsgi's daemon mode: >> >> Are you serving static media or running non Python web applications on >> same Apache? >> >> If not, then worker MPM configuration is creating many more >> processes/threads than is needed to handle proxying to available >> processes/threads on daemon process side. >> >> > WSGIDaemonProcess somename user=www-data group=www-data processes=4 >> > threads=32 >> >> Presumably you also have WSGIProcessGroup and are in fact running in >> daemon mode. >> >> > Is this somehow overkill? The server is a well speced quad core with >> > 8 gigs of ram and fast hard drives. >> >> Use of 32 threads is possibly overkill. The default is 15 per process >> and even that could well be overkill. >> >> If your request times are quick, can usually get away with under 5 >> threads. The only reason to run more is if you need a buffer due >> having some number of long running requests. >> >> > It also runs the database server (postgres). >> >> > Has anyone else experienced this kind of problem? I've cross posted >> > this to both the mod_wsgi and sqlalchemy mailing lists - hope that's >> > ok as I believe this may be relevant to both groups. >> >> The way I read this is that you have 32 potential threads in a process >> which want to access database, but sqlalchemy is set up to only have >> 10 connections in its connection pool. Thus, on a per process basis, >> if things bog down and database is overloaded with requests arriving >> quicker than can be handled, then to could run out of connection >> resources in pool and exceed that wait time for queued requests >> wanting a connection. >> >> Dropping down to 5 threads per mod_wsgi daemon process would avoid >> this as then less than number of connections in pool and couldn't >> exceed it. When system does bog down, with less threads across all >> daemon processes, if all used up, then just means that requests >> effectively get queued up within Apache server child processes. >> Presuming that backend recovers, then those queue requests will then >> in turn be handled. >> >> If the number of requests arriving is sufficient that all the threads >> across Apache server child processes also become busy, and the socket >> listener queue length is exceeded for main HTTP port on Apache, only >> then would clients start to see connection refused. >> >> Dropping down number of daemon threads in this way can therefore >> actually be used as a way of throttling connections where it is known >> that your database isn't going to be able to handle more than a >> certain number of requests at the same time. In other words, rather >> than let a large number of requests through and simply overload >> database even more and make things worse, the limit, with subsequent >> queueing of requests within Apache, allows one to trickle connections >> through when in an overloaded state. >> >> Anyway, since I don't know much about sqlalchemy and pyscopg2, that is >> my guess at what is happening. >> >> Graham > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "modwsgi" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/modwsgi?hl=en. > > > >
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "modwsgi" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/modwsgi?hl=en.
