I'll wait for it, but now the best way to prevent restarting Apache is
to change mod_wsgi to mod_passenger. With passenger 'graceful' on
Apache do not kill connection (and process) before end of request.

Regards.

On 17 Sty, 00:59, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> wrote:
> That is actually for something totally unrelated as far as I can see.
>
> I will get to the daemon pooling, but have been busy as had to work to
> out why Python 3.2 was broken before they released rc1 and get
> mod_wsgi updated to work with subtle changes they made to how
> threading APIs work.
>
> Graham
>
> On 17 January 2011 02:25, grassoalvaro <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ok, i found the timeouts problem:
>
> > /* we now proceed to read from the client until we get EOF, or until
> >  * MAX_SECS_TO_LINGER has passed.  the reasons for doing this are
> >  * documented in a draft:
> >  *
> >  *http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/http/draft-ietf-http-connection-00.txt
> >  *
> >  * in a nutshell -- if we don't make this effort we risk causing
> >  * TCP RST packets to be sent which can tear down a connection before
> >  * all the response data has been sent to the client.
> >  */
> > #define SECONDS_TO_LINGER 2
>
> > so this is not so easy that i thought ;-/
>
> > Can you tell more about "are other ways of avoiding the restarts"?
>
> > On 13 Sty, 19:41, grassoalvaro <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > FWIW, there are other ways of avoiding the restarts by preallocating
> >> > daemon process groups in advance and not using VirtualHost but other
> >> > means of virtual hosting.
>
> >> Hmm, this is interesting, any example (docs)?
>
> >> On 13 Sty, 12:28, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > On 13 January 2011 22:14, grassoalvaro <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > > Thanks. I'll try to modify Apache source code to change that timeout
> >> > > and then make some tests.
>
> >> > Have fun trying to work out where to change it. It seems to differ
> >> > between MPMs and I never quite got my head around it completely, or at
> >> > least I have forgotten exactly how it works. Overall It is not
> >> > something I would recommend and increasing the timeout will likely
> >> > only cause other problems. That is, rather than have requests be
> >> > killed, you will cause new requests to stall for a lot longer and
> >> > sites will simply appear to not be responding.
>
> >> > > Event if mod_wsgi wan't create for shared hosting - many people use it
> >> > > for this. And it works well (except Apache reloading ;-)) Solution to
> >> > > use one Apache for one client is good but takes too many memory.
>
> >> > FWIW, there are other ways of avoiding the restarts by preallocating
> >> > daemon process groups in advance and not using VirtualHost but other
> >> > means of virtual hosting.
>
> >> > Graham
>
> >> > > Anywany, thanks for information.
>
> >> > > On 11 Sty, 23:30, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > >> On 11 January 2011 23:06, grassoalvaro <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > >> > Thanks for your very useful description.
> >> > >> > Do you know Is there any good reason why apache is killing process
> >> > >> > after 3 seconds? Why no 15 for example?
>
> >> > >> It is a hard wired timeout period it applies to Apache child processes
> >> > >> when a 'restart' is applied. When it does a graceful restart, it
> >> > >> handles its own child process differently and lets them run to
> >> > >> completion, but in that graceful restart mode it still kills off
> >> > >> processes after fixed 3 seconds if they are what it regards as other
> >> > >> processes, which is what it regards mod_wsgi daemon processes.
>
> >> > >> Note that mod_wsgi was originally intended for self hosting of your
> >> > >> own web applications with daemon mode not actually a part of the
> >> > >> original goals as far as features. The model of how it is implemented
> >> > >> isn't necessarily suited to doing shared hosting, especially where
> >> > >> changes are going to be made often to Apache configuration.
>
> >> > >> Graham
>
> >> > >> > On 11 Sty, 10:17, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> 
> >> > >> > wrote:
> >> > >> >> On 11 January 2011 10:27, grassoalvaro <[email protected]> 
> >> > >> >> wrote:
>
> >> > >> >> > Ok, short description is not enought.
>
> >> > >> >> > My app is an ordering app for shared hosting accounts (for Python
> >> > >> >> > mod_wsgi) and it's based on mod_wsgi also.
> >> > >> >> > App is calling some API method (server-app) which is restarting 
> >> > >> >> > apache
> >> > >> >> > after httpd modifications.
> >> > >> >> > The problem is that I can of course use sleep && httpd graceful 
> >> > >> >> > in
> >> > >> >> > background, but this will kill other (customer apps) connections 
> >> > >> >> > after
> >> > >> >> > sleep.
> >> > >> >> > So, is there any method do reload config without killing any 
> >> > >> >> > mod_wsgi
> >> > >> >> > connections?
>
> >> > >> >> Connections are transient and not permanent. For a well written 
> >> > >> >> site
> >> > >> >> connections would be maintained for less than a second.
>
> >> > >> >> The way the process restart works for daemon processes, regardless 
> >> > >> >> of
> >> > >> >> whether you do an Apache restart or graceful restart, is that when
> >> > >> >> daemon process is signalled to restart, it will stop accepting any
> >> > >> >> more connections. If there are no active connections for current
> >> > >> >> requests it will shutdown process immediately and then restart. Any
> >> > >> >> connections that come during that time effectively queue up with
> >> > >> >> Apache child processes and/or within port 80 socket listener queue.
> >> > >> >> When processes restart, the held over requests will be handled.
>
> >> > >> >> In the case that the daemon process still had active requests, then
> >> > >> >> rather than daemon process shutting down and restarting 
> >> > >> >> immediately it
> >> > >> >> waits, giving the current requests an opportunity to finish first 
> >> > >> >> at
> >> > >> >> what point the process is then shutdown and restarted. The way 
> >> > >> >> Apache
> >> > >> >> works however, is that it gives a maximum of three seconds grace to
> >> > >> >> the mod_wsgi daemon processes and if they have not shutdown by 
> >> > >> >> then,
> >> > >> >> because of the requests not finishing, Apache will forcibly kill 
> >> > >> >> them
> >> > >> >> off and they will be restarted.
>
> >> > >> >> The problem you saw was because your request handler was likely
> >> > >> >> blocked in some way on waiting for the Apache process to restart 
> >> > >> >> and
> >> > >> >> that very act meant the request didn't complete within the three
> >> > >> >> seconds allowing the process to shutdown cleanly.
>
> >> > >> >> Now, as I said, for a well written site, requests should be sub
> >> > >> >> second, only long requests like large file uploads might be 
> >> > >> >> affected.
> >> > >> >> So, for typical case, the restart wouldn't usually be noticed and
> >> > >> >> wouldn't affect any connections because outstanding requests would
> >> > >> >> finish within the three seconds dictated by Apache.
>
> >> > >> >> Of course, if you are constantly restarting Apache because of
> >> > >> >> configuration changes, then you increase the risk that you will 
> >> > >> >> hit a
> >> > >> >> requests that doesn't finish within the three seconds and exit in 
> >> > >> >> time
> >> > >> >> to allow process to restart cleanly.
>
> >> > >> >> Whether you can avoid doing the restarts I cannot comment because 
> >> > >> >> have
> >> > >> >> no idea what changes you are enacting to the Apache configuration
> >> > >> >> which triggers you wanting to restart it. If the changes relate to
> >> > >> >> mod_wsgi daemon process provisioning then for some cases you may be
> >> > >> >> able to avoid it, but it means setting up things in a particular 
> >> > >> >> way.
> >> > >> >> Overall, you are often better off having a nginx front end and 
> >> > >> >> simply
> >> > >> >> giving each customer their own Apache instance behind that. That 
> >> > >> >> way
> >> > >> >> only customer to whom the changes apply are affected and no one 
> >> > >> >> else.
> >> > >> >> This is how WebFaction and some other quality Python hosting 
> >> > >> >> companies
> >> > >> >> work.
>
> >> > >> >> > Regards.
>
> >> > >> >> > On 11 Sty, 00:15, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> 
> >> > >> >> > wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> On 11 January 2011 07:53, grassoalvaro <[email protected]> 
> >> > >> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> > >> >> >> > Hi.
>
> >> > >> >> >> > I have application deployed on apache + mod_wsgi which is 
> >> > >> >> >> > changing
> >> > >> >> >> > httpd.conf and then reloading apache (httpd graceful).
> >> > >> >> >> > And here is the problem: application is making request 
> >> > >> >> >> > changing httpd
> >> > >> >> >> > config and reloading him and while request is in progress the 
> >> > >> >> >> > process
> >> > >> >> >> > is killing:
>
> >> > >> >> >> > Premature end of script headers: start.wsgi
> >> > >> >> >> > (2)No such file or directory: mod_wsgi (pid=31624): Unable to 
> >> > >> >> >> > connect
> >> > >> >> >> > to WSGI daemon process 'pylons_app' on 
> >> > >> >> >> > '/var/logs/wsgi.31409.0.1.sock'
> >> > >> >> >> > after multiple attempts.,
>
> >> > >> >> >> > So it is possible to reload _only_ apache config without 
> >> > >> >> >> > reloading
> >> > >> >> >> > whole mod_wsgi?
>
> >> > >> >> >> The short answer is no.
>
> >> > >> >> >> > Or any other idea how to deal with this problem?
>
> >> > >> >> >> How are you triggering the Apache restart? The daemon processes
> >> > >> >> >> themselves will not have sufficient privileges to do it itself, 
> >> > >> >> >> so you
> >> > >> >> >> must be using a separate suid script or invoking a remote API 
> >> > >> >> >> for some
> >> > >> >> >> service that does it on your behalf.
>
> >> > >> >> >> If it is a command line script, then invoke it as a background 
> >> > >> >> >> command
> >> > >> >> >> with a time delay before it. Ie.
>
> >> > >> >> >>   os.system('(sleep 1; /some/path/restart-apache)&')
>
> >> > >> >> >> If it is via a remote API using XML-RPC or something, instead 
> >> > >> >> >> of doing
> >> > >> >> >> it from web application, make it a script executed as above.
>
> >> > >> >> >> A further way is to create a background thread which calls the 
> >> > >> >> >> API.
>
> >> > >> >> >> In all ways, you are attempting to avoid the problem of the 
> >> > >> >> >> request
> >> > >> >> >> handler blocking on waiting for the restart command to complete.
>
> >> > >> >> >> Anyway, will help if you explain how you are triggering the 
> >> > >> >> >> Apache restart.
>
> >> > >> >> >> Graham
>
> >> > >> >> > --
> >> > >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
> >> > >> >> > Google Groups "modwsgi" group.
> >> > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> >> > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> >> > >> >> > [email protected].
>
> ...
>
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