On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 11:48 -0600, Kirk Haines wrote: > On 9/3/06, Zed Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Theorize all you want, but all I know is, use Mutex, process gets > > killed, use Sync, process stays up. Can't argue with the evidence. > > Sure I can. Your conclusion about Mutex is like the conclusion once > drawn about the sun. It comes up in the east and goes down in the > west, so the evidence clearly shows that the sun rotates around the > earth, right? > > There is nothing wrong with Mutex. It's an incredibly simple piece of > code and can quite clearly be demonstrated not to leak. > > I'm not arguing with the fact that for some users simply swapping Sync > in place of Mutex appears to clear a problem. I'm just arguing with > your conclusion that this is because Mutex is broken or because Ruby > is leaking memory when it is used.
I like you Kirk, so don't take it personally, it's just an incredibly sore spot with me since I've been complaining about this for ages and everyone keeps telling me I'm crazy despite what I demonstrate. But, explain this: http://pastie.caboo.se/10194 vs. http://pastie.caboo.se/10317 First one leaks, second one doesn't (with graphs even). What's worse is the inverse is true on win32. These scripts have no Mongrel code, no Rails code, they're just short Ruby scripts. Now, it's not about users, it's about the two bug reductions that simulate how Mongrel uses processes demonstrating a leak in both 1.8.5 and 1.8.4. And it's insulting that you compare my careful examination of the problem and numerous people's countless investigation into this as nothing more than tribal Sun worship. If anything the Ruby morons (not you) running around ignoring Ruby's problems are the religious fanatics who need to get a grip and fix this crap before guys like me get fed up and run happily to a platform that doesn't suck. It also has nothing to do with the Sun, Ptolemaic Astronomy, Polynesian navigation by dead reckoning, or other stuff you read about in that one speech/essay by Feynman about Cargo Cults. I have evidence, many other people reported the same results in different systems, and I have demonstration scripts. The only evidence other people have produced is to write a different script that doesn't leak, which doesn't fix the script that does leak. Instead, the "garbage collection apologists" insist that it's not Mutex, yet the change log for 1.8.5 says there were bugs in the GC code for Threads. I'm betting that it's not fixed, and that people like you who keep arguing it's not a bug are doing nothing but making it so nobody has to admit three things: 1) Threads suck ass in Ruby. 2) The GC sucks even worse. 3) Combining two forms of suckage makes for ultra suckage. But hey, I've been over this a billion times with tons of people, and all I get in response is that I'm totally wrong because someone else can write a different script that doesn't leak. Yet, this different script doesn't fix the script that does leak given above. It's a never ending truly Ptolemaic cycle of Ruby on Ruby when the real problem is deep in the morass of C code that makes up the wonderful split between Thread GC and "everything else GC". So, sorry Kirk, I'm not full of crap or making this up or anything else you're implying. I have demonstration code, I and others run the code and it happens, I have graphs, statistics, measurements, and demonstrated fixes. Oh no, it's not Ruby, it's me. Meanwhile, I don't even have time to go investigate the problem because I'm trying to get this stuff out so people can do their jobs. I'll leave it to the apologists to argue that everything's just quite alright and start looking for my next platform. I hear Lua likes to fix their virtual machine. Maybe I'll start there. Again, sorry for ranting at you directly, but it really doesn't sit right with me to have my careful measurements compared with ancient psuedo-science. -- Zed A. Shaw http://www.zedshaw.com/ http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/ http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help. _______________________________________________ Mongrel-users mailing list Mongrel-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-users
