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Rich,
As someone who runs an auction site, I can say that my team and I thought
long and hard about any ways we could try to eliminate "shill bidding." Turns
out, it simply can't be done.
1) You can't assume the seller is "in cahoots" with someone who is driving
the price up. If the seller accepts items on consignment, it may be the person
who consigned the item doing the shilling or a friend of a friend of that
person. The seller would have no way to know.
2) Even if the seller does know, it is virtually impossible to prove,
as Donnie just demonstrated in his point-by-point below. The best one
can do is identify "suspicious behavior", but to do that takes a lot of time and
research on the part of the other bidders and then is not conclusive. Even if
the item turns up again in a short time -- well, unless it's the same seller
selling the same items, there are all kinds of explanations. It might be the
person who one the item putting it back on the market, hoping for a quick
turnaround. It might be someone with the same item who just heard that XYZ
poster sold for a whole lot on eBay and he wants to get his copy of XYZ on the
market quick to take advantage of the buzz.
3) Even the old "offer it to the number 2 bidder for cheap" and see if they
bite. This used to work, sorta, but these days people are always getting all
kinds of bogus offers like this. Most are scams designed to get the disappointed
bidder to send money for something he thought he had lost out on, but he will
never receive the item. So most people are passing on any non-official
eBay-originated "second chance" offers at this point. I know I do. So the number
2 bidder passing on an offer "too good to be true" doesn't prove anything any
more.
4) Sometimes a shill bidder will be someone unknown to the seller who
already has the item in his inventory (or his collection) and he is bidding up
the price to protect his investment in that item. He doesn't want "one just like
mine" selling too cheap in a very public auction place like eBay.
There is only ONE time-tested guaranteed way to protect yourself from a
shill bidder:
Determine what you are willing to pay for an item in advance and stick with
that amount, no matter what happens. Either put it in as your maximum bid and
hope for the best, or hold off putting that amount in until the last few seconds
and hope it's enough. Yes, this will often lead to losing the item "by just a
dollar" but it is the only way to avoid being pushed up by a shill.
-- JR
These "shill" scams can be very devious, and involve
alternate computers, multiple user ids, and often involve friends, relatives, or employees of the items lister/seller. The shill ideally wants to be the "underbidder" driving the winning bidder to just under his "maximum" high bid. These scams often fall prey to their own greed, when the "shills", not knowing the "real" bidders "maximum" accidentally "win" the item. You can sometimes spot this scenario when a rare item that hardly ever shows up online, suddenly shows up again... online! Another way to spot a "shill" is... Let's say the "shill" was an underbidder on a poster that the "winning" bidder paid $5000 for... The "shill" was at $4950... Then you (or someone else) calls/emails the "underbidder" offering the same exact poster for $2500 (HALF)... If they say something like... "no thanks"... hmmmmmmm Some might say, this is not proof of a "shill" scam because the underbidder might be unwilling to buy directly from someone under these circumstances. True... However... A poster that they were willing to pay $4950 for... ONE DAY EARLIER? THE SAME POSTER IS OFFERED FOR $2500 and they say "no thanks"... I agree, it's not enough evidence to label this is a "shill scam" However... Whoever actually listed that item? I'd make a mental note of this very suspicious auction... certainly not jumping to any conclusions... Yet, wouldn't it be in your best interest to make absolutely certain you bid conservatively (at or below market value) in this person's auctions from now on? Isn't that just common sense? Another way to spot "shills"... Always look at the feedback specifics of the UNSUCESSFUL/UNDERBIDDERS on all pricey poster auctions. Why? These criminals are not actually buyers movie posters. They are con men, in cahoots with the actual sellers... These scumbags are often even employees or relatives of the seller! Since they aren't "true" buyers of movieposters, unless they fuck up and win one of their own items... Their feedback profiles will be a scam as well. These guys usually have a buying record that is totally inconsistent with the items they are (shazzam) the underbidder on. In-other-words... They actually buy computers, dog food, or lots of cheap crap... and they "JUST" lost out (underbidder) on that pricey poster. If you call/email these folks with inconsistent buying feedback, offering them the same poster for half (or less)... and they don't bother to reply, or send a brief/cryptic "not interested anymore" ... Again, not enough to convict in a court of law, but certainly enough to start watching this seller closely, and a good reason to bid conservatively in their auctions... FOREVER! Unfortunately, eBay allows "secret" bidder listings. Although the high bidders sometimes like anonymity when they pay large amounts of money for posters... Guess what kind of activity thrives in this shadowy/secret enviornment? Yup... If you can't see the bidder id's on a very expensive item? There is absolutely no way to check the buyer feedback of the underbidder (the guy the shill wants to be). It's a very dangerous place, and without any checks and balances? I always advise people to bid EXTREMELY conservatively in "blind" auctions. Never/ever bid above market value on any lot that you can't carefully examine the underbidders buying patterns on after the lot closes. The only way to spot a "shill" in a "blind id" auction is to catch the identical (rare) item showing up again for sale in a very short time span. This is not evidence, but certainly reason to suspect that the "shill" got greedy in the "blind id" event and "won" his own item. Another very suspicious circumstance? Let's say that you are bidding on a very pricey poster... At the last minute someone "outbids" you... Then, the seller contacts you with some friggin song & dance about the "high bidder" (the guy that outbid you) not wanting, or being unable to pay for the item... Hmmmmmmmmm Think about that for a moment. Some clown bid YOU WAY UP above the amount the item would have sold for (without their bid)... Now this person can't pay? The seller wants to let you, the underbidder have the item for your bid amount? RED FLAG!!!!!
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