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JR - You have a very good point there about the
date that serious poster collecting started... although I think there were many
people who ALWAYS preserved their posters in the best conditions. I knew serious
collectors in England in the early 70s who had their posters in plan chests and
treated them in just the same way as museums did their finest historic paper
such as maps etc.
However I can still recall a visit to A Very
Famous Collector in 1977 and was somewhat horrified to see his bathroom papered
from ceiling to edge of bath with original Val Lewton one sheets. The posters
were just tacked up, or stapled. I couldn't help but comment - and his response
was, "well, I don't splash".....
Phil
Phil Edwards Cinema Arts Pty Ltd 26 Vista Avenue Soldiers
Point NSW 2317 AUSTRALIA Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone/Fax
(International Dial) 0011 61 2 49847233 Phone/Fax (Domestic Dial) 02
4984 7233 Website: www.cinemarts.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:07
PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] A good fake is always
worth making
Michael,
I knew plenty of guys... kids really... who wrapped their comics in saran
wrap and kept them in trunks and suitcases in the early 1950's -- I was
one myself. I believe comic-collecting -- regarding them as collectibles to
be carefully handled and pains taken to preserve condition -- was going
on longer than you think. Besides, it was simply easier to put comics away in
a box or drawer or whatever where they would have little exposure to sun,
light and air pollution. Whereas posters, which -- I think -- did not start
being regarded as "collectibles" until, what, the mid-seventies at the
earliest? were always harder to store in a protected way because of their size
and the way they were handed "at the source" (i.e., passing through the mails
and motion picture theaters instead of comic book stands).
You're right that there are parallels when talking about them because
they are both paper and both pop culture art, but there are a lot of
divergences as well, particulary when it comes to early awareness of condition
as an issue and the ease preservation of condition.
One note, it's true that the interior pages of comics are of cheap news
print type paper... but the covers are actually of a similar quality of paper
and ink as one sheet posters of the time. In fact, glossy covers on comics
were common long before the first glossy-paper movie posters started showing
up. So it's more appropriate to compare the condition of comic books covers of
a given vintage to movie posters of the same time period (at least where one
sheets are concerned).
I have seen lots of instances of comics where the interior pages
were in very fine shape, but the paper of the cover (usually the interior side
of the front and back covers) suffered significant yellowing -- if not
outright browning -- with age. But, like I say, at some point the divergence
becomes too much and the comparisons don't work well.
While I never handled 60 year old paper when it was brand new, I handled
plenty of it when it was only 15 or 20 years old -- not sure what that has to
do with anything. I still have some of that paper from when I was a kid. It
looks, feels and smells a lot older now, even though I cared for it. You
can't stop the aging process, you can only retard it.
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005
2:28
Subject: Re: [MOPO] A good fake is
always worth making
"These were not comic books, which had a real base of more
serious "collectors" almost from the beginning."
Comic book collecting actually began in any seriousness (and in the
minority) in 1962 and 1966 is probably the real start of comic book
collecting.
As far as the quality of 60 plus year old paper goes - really- how many
of us have even seen or handled 60 year old or better paper and actually
seen it in its original state?
JR - I am not trying to attack you - I really am not. But
generalizations taken as fact can lead to innacuracies. Comic books really
did not start being seriosuly collected until the 60's.
Have you ever held and examine a piece of 60 year old paper when
it was first manufactured? As you say, the paper is not manufactured anymore
(honestly not sure about that - the poster makers may have just shifted to
different paper as times progressed).
What I am trying to say is that even a casual remark can be seen as
gospel by some. And that can lead to problems.
:-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guys, guys (and gals)...
I did not mean to say there are not really fine examples of old
posters and lobby cards out there. Obviously there are. The point I was
making is that when you hold one of these genuine old paper items, even if
it is unblemished and unyellowed condition, it will still look, smell and
feel "old". The paper will be recognizable as a kind of paper that is not
made anymore and hasn't been for 20 or 30 years. The ink will be settled
into the fibers of the paper and will not look and smell "fresh". The
paper will have a kind "flex" to it rather than a crisp
stiffness, as the fibers have relaxed somewhat over the 50 or 60 years
(even if stacked and stored in vaults, yes). The items will not feel or
smell "news stand fresh", no matter how perfect they may appear to the eye
at a distance. A recently printed item will look, feel and smell
different, and will be on different paper with razor sharp edges that have
not had 60 years to soften a little to the touch. Eve! n when stacked on
top of each other the edges are exposed to the air.
As for those extremely really old yet super-fine posters, let's not
pretend that they are anything but ultra rare. These were not comic books,
which had a real base of more serious "collectors" almost from
the beginning. This was advertising paper, folded by machine, slapped into
unpadded envelopes and sent through the U.S. mail to the theaters who then
handled them roughly, stuck them up on walls and display cases. Often,
these posters were sent back to the NSS and sent out again and again as a
film made the rounds. Those that weren't were thrown in a back office
somewhere, or taken home by a film fan and tacked to their walls. It was
only much later that movie posters became a collectible. Sure,
they may have been a fun hobby for a few people when they
were new, but they were still just a hobby -- and not treated as
"collectibles" and handled as such. Therefore, 99% of the time you are
going to have authentic old posters that are not! "off the press perfect".
In the cases of those famous and legendary warehouse finds,
or the occasional happy chance of good storage where they were
forgotten and untouched for decades, yeah, you'll find some great stuff,
but little if any of it will be in truly off-the-press perfect condition
and untouched at least slightly by time. Talk like that is
the stuff of which collector's dreams are made of, but in reality an
unbacked and unrestored "mint condition" poster that is 50 or 60
years old may be superb and may be honestly called "mint" by the very
loose standards of this hobby/industry -- but it will still have some
patina of age.
I always prefer the use of terms like fine, very fine and
extremely fine to the term "mint" when it comes to movie paper. But that's
just me.
The point was, as I mentioned before, that with a little practice and
experience you can tell genuine old paper from a reproduction when you
hold it in your hand and compare it to authentic paper of the same
vintage.
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005
0:30
Subject: Re: [MOPO] A good fake is
always worth making
To quote "It can get humid in the summer, as long as its dry in the
winter."
I have to argue this point. Fluctuations of tempertaure and
humidity will adversely affect paper (I DID specify that in
previous post).
Put a piece of any paper in the condition that the heat and
humidity will fluctuate like that for a few dedades and you will
probably have a piece of paper no longer mint or
nm.
Abe Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
You
don't need a state of the art stoage facility to keep lobby cards
and
posters in perfect condition. Take a few MINT lobbies right off
the press...
sandwich them in between a couple thousand other lobby
cards. Throw them in
a filing cabinet. Let them sit in a reasonable
environment for 30, 40, 60,
80, 100 years. When you decide to pull
them; they will be in virtually in
the same condition, so long as
you keep your paper out of the light, and you
keep Fido from
pissing on it. It can get humid in the summer, as long as its
dry
in the winter. It's not rocket science. And yes, paper from the 20s
and
30s shows up that is definately real and so clean you could
throw it on a
slab and call it a 10. This is not the norm. But it
happens from time to
time. I'm sure there is a good deal of cherry
stuff out there that people
are sitting on, knowningly, ! ! or
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