I think it all comes down to intent. Look, if it's not cool to make a joke about a minority, then it's also not cool to make a similar joke about a majority -- you have to apply the same standards to all people. But people are funny... they do funny things and say funny things, regardless of race, creed or color... and jokes are going to be made, regardless of the currently prevailing rules of political correctness. So rather than say something like "It's not OK to joke about a minority because they've been oppressed, but it is fine to make all the jokes you want about the majority", I think it would be better if people looked at the intent behind the joke. After all, that's what we do when considering if someone has committed a crime... we look at their intent.
In the case of jokes, intent can sometimes be obvious and sometimes not. If you're watching a standup comedian on stage, you're pretty safe in assuming that he's joking just for the sake of clowning around -- he's not serious about anything he's saying about anybody. When it's someone you know personally, you can usually tell if they're saying something just because it struck them as funny or if their intention is to be mean and denigrating. But when it comes to things like email, it is usually much much harder to tell what the writer's intent is. That's why smiley faces were invented -- :) -- to make it clear what was just said was a joke and not intended to be taken seriously. But it's an imperfect solution. So, I think it's best to be careful about making potentially controversial jokes when posting email messages in public so as not to have one's intent misunderstood, unless you can frame the joke in such a way as to make it pretty obvious you're not being serious. We like to think that our wit comes through clearly to everyone who reads our stuff (I certainly do), but we have to face the fact that for a variety of reason that all too often isn't the case. I've even started using smiley faces myself from time to time, just to be clear. -- JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "lobby card invasion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:07 Subject: Re: [MOPO] What we got here is failure to communicate!! Phil Its very nice that you can be so brave and full of good cheer concerning your "cracker" origins, but the bottom line is YOU ARE NOT a member of a minority group that is/has been discriminated against, let alone persecuted. Its much easier poking fun at yourself behind the safety of knowing that no physical harm will come to you, but that luxury (physical safety) wasn't always the lot of visible minorities. You never walked a mile in their shoes! Zeev ---- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip Wages" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] What we got here is failure to communicate!! > Ooo! Oooo! My personal soapbox!!!!!!!! > > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bigot > Bigot (bgt) - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, > race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. > > Keypoint = tolerance and humor are two different things...look 'em up in > the dictionary. I bet you the definitions are different. TRUST ME! > > Okay... so I make/laugh-at jokes about all the groups you listed ('cept > Australians...what kind of joke would I tell? "You call that a knife?") > and more. In fact, when I hear Chris Rock tell a joke about a > "cracker", I laugh. Why? Because I'm not a bigot...I just enjoy a good > joke. And it doesn't have to be Chris Rock. Cedric the Entertainer or > David K., it doesn't matter (disclaimer: I could make a list of all > non-caucasion American and non-American groups, but it would take a > while...geez). If it's funny, I laugh. Sure, I've said "Me love you > long time" many-a-time, but it wasn't out of bigotry. It's a great line > from a great movie. > > The point is, political correctness is phewy. One must look at the > context in which statements are made and at the intentions of the person > saying them...if you even want to bother. The fact is, we are all > people. We have our strengths and weaknesses. Mine? I enjoy a good > joke whoever it targets (unless it is John Kerry....leave the man alone!). > > Oh, and Joe, I too am from Mississippi....and as you know, the ONLY > thing we have down there IS a sense of humor (I make fun of MY origins > on a daily basis...sadly, it is the only way to cope....hehe)! For the > record, there are a few homosexuals in my family (openly, but not > "flagrantly"...though it wouldn't matter either way as they are great > people which is all that counts when you get down to brass tax), plus my > stepmother is black, there are at least two different kinds of Native > American blood in my veins, my stepdad is from Indiana (who may have > decended from 1800s bank robbers know as The Littles, who renamed > themselves to "Morgan", ya know, after the Captain...ok, so I made that > last bit up...hehe), my mom decends from poor white trash sharecroppers > (from Mississippi...I'm not making this up....stereotype galore!), and > my dad decends from my grandfather (who decended from horse theives!) > and my grandmother (imagine that?) who is 70+, from Mississippi and > still known to say to my grandfather when a black man walks down the > street (I kid you not), "Papa...look at that. Go get your > shotgun...just in case."...even though my stepmother lives about 50 feet > from her. It's friggin' crazy. Ironically, my dad went from this > environment to having a PhD in micro-biology (I think)....he's a Green > Party member, election commissioner for his district in Tupelo > Mississippi, runs a farm with several dozen fowl and all sorts of weird > vegtables, and during a protest rally tells the local reporter that he > "is gay"....in an attempt to blur lines and help break down the social > norm barriers. To quote an alternative-country band, "Such is the > duality of the Southern thang". Naw mah...ware's mah chew? > > So ya'll don' te'l me 'bout big-o-tree, my fam'ly tree isa full up an' I > jus' keepa laughin' (it's easier than cryin', you all know). > Phil > > >My feelings exactly Sue. While being humorous which > >is something I can appreciate. I don't think joking > >about bigotry goes over quite well now. First off, > >it's quite off topic. Secondly, why joke about > >bigotry? If I joked about blacks, hispanics, asians, > >southerners, Australians, British, Texans..., that > >would be rude, not on topic, and hurtful. Why bother? > > Got any better jokes? I think David's humorous > >answer to this is commendable. But why start? > > > > > > > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List > > Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L > > The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
