count me in Ron ------------------------------------ Unshredded Nostalgia Jim Episale [EMAIL PROTECTED] 323 south main st Route 9 Barnegat nj 08005 tel: 800 872 9990 www.unshreddednostalgia.com ------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kirby McDaniel Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] Unified grading system As a dealer, I would welcome it and I can grade posters by any standard that anyone sets up. I've used Warren's C-7, C-8 etc, I've used VG VF NM etc, I've used A B C, I've used 1-10. The practical thing is that with my customers I take the time to enumerate every little detail. And I think I've been successful at communicating to my customers what the actual state of the posters are. But I'm willing to adopt any standard that all or even a preponderance of the dealers and auction houses agree on. I don't have the time to lobby for a standard with all the parties and be the clearing house for implementing the standard (and I know - nobody's asked me !! ) --- but I would sign on. Your idea is a good one, Ron. And no, I didn't want to say that's it's impossible. Improbable...??? Maybe. Impractical? Not really, actually it's quite a practical idea. Kirby www.movieart.net On Jan 23, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Ron Moore wrote: > Hey Kirby! > > How true! But I take it from your comment, that you don't think a > unified grading system can be established? Or that is is next to > impossible? I think it can be done. The other major hobbies like > coins, comics and sports cards are much, much larger than our > relatively small hobby. And frankly, if they can do it and get > their collectors to agree and accept a unified system then I think > we should be able to do it a whole lot easier. Maybe get the > auction houses together and develop a "standard" that they can all > agree to and then get some of the major dealers at galleries, shows > and online sellers to acept as well. Listen to everyone's comments > and try to find a middle ground that meets the majorities standards. > > Ron > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Kirby McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> I certainly did not mean to demean Michael's post or his experience >> with Bonham's. I simply chose 10 posters - and it didn't hurt that I >> had Freeman Fisher look at them for me - and the posters I got were >> all OK. I agree with Ron that a unified grading system would be >> good, but then so would peace in the mideast. >> >> Kirby McDaniel >> www.movieart.net >> >> On Jan 22, 2006, at 9:47 PM, Ron Moore wrote: >> >>> I wasn't able to attend the Bonham's auction and I was not planning >>> on bidding with them because I couldn't attend- that is until I had >>> a friend in LA look at the items for me in person. Then I felt I >>> could at least bid via phone. My prior experience with Bonhams & >>> Butterfield's has not been a happy one. I never returned anything- >>> but that's only because I felt it was my own fault for bidding on >>> something sight unseen and I should have known better. I bid (and >>> won) many items from one of their sales a little over a year ago >>> and when I got the items listed in A- condition, I realized that >>> these were at best what I would have called VG, what Hershenson >>> would have called "Lesser" and what Grey would have graded as VG >>> 4.5. The only guys I will bid with (at major auctions) on items >>> sight unseen are Bruce and Grey and that's because I know they have >>> enough integrity to acurately describe the material they're >>> selling. I know there are other online/ ebay dealers that are >>> respec! >>> table as well (Deke, Phil, Kirby etc.) but, there's a lot of >>> others that play fast and loose with condition as well. >>> >>> Butterfields entire history of grading posters has been at best >>> horrible. I remember when Michael Schwartz was their consultant and >>> I used to point out severe problems with posters to him that he had >>> listed in their catalogs as near mint or mint. He would look right >>> at the problem I pointed out to him (and we're not talking about a >>> minor problem either- these were MAJOR), and he would matter of >>> factly state, "Looks mint to me". Shocking! Even though Michael >>> is not with them any more- the grading problems persist. >>> >>> You're right in the fact that the old A,B, C grades are the loosest >>> in the hobby. They should be junked as they actually mean nothing. >>> You might as well put on a blindfold and play "pin the grade on the >>> poster". What this hobby needs (like all of the other major >>> hobbies) is a unified grading system. No more ABC, no C8 or C9's, >>> no Fine/ Very fine or does that really mean excellent? What we >>> need is something far more defined. It's the only way to get >>> people's confidence in the hobby to last and to get rid of the >>> frustration. Restoration needs to be detailed and sellers need to >>> let people know what the condition of the item was prior to >>> restoration. Bruce is good at this, but with the sheer volulme of >>> material he unloads on the internet every week even he and his crew >>> can't do that kind of detail. So far, the only major auction house >>> giving this kind of detail is Heritage. >>> >>> Comic books have moved into this direction the best so far (in my >>> opinion) as they list restored books with "Apparent" grades. >>> Meaning, a book may only "appear" in near mint 9.4 condition as it >>> has been restored to that appearance. But even this doesn't denote >>> what condition it was in prior to the restoration. It should have >>> a dual grade- something like "7.5/ AP 9.4" which would denote it >>> was in 7.5 condition but has now been restored to appear as a 9.4. >>> >>> Just an idea. >>> >>> Ron Moore >>> Cinema Icons >>> >>> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >>> From: Toochis Morin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> I was at the auction and unfortunately won nothing. I >>>> did notice, however, that there were several faded >>>> posters which people won and they were at the auction! >>>> They saw the damage and still bid. Those buyers >>>> knew what they bought. I wanted the IN A LONELY PLACE >>>> insert but when I saw it person, it was so faded. A >>>> couple who was there bought it and not for cheap. >>>> >>>> Toochis >>>> >>>> --- Michael B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> kirby--- >>>>> >>>>> kirby, my guess is that you attended the auction or >>>>> had a dealer-friend look at the items you sought. >>>>> >>>>> clearly, if you attend in person, you cannot get >>>>> burnt. people who bid absentee, like me, must rely >>>>> on the descriptions. the poster i returned was >>>>> based on my absentee bid. no one in the room >>>>> thought much of it. the description said A- . >>>>> wouldnt you think, that would be close to mint? >>>>> >>>>> prior to my bid when i was providing credit info, i >>>>> was told there was a no-return policy. isnt it odd >>>>> that for the issues i raised (not only the gross >>>>> fading), i was given full credit including postage >>>>> both ways? >>>>> >>>>> when a poster is returned, do not overlook the >>>>> disappointment factor of the excited winner. >>>>> >>>>> so, kirby, thank you for your contribution to my >>>>> thread that you have no complaints. perhaps, its >>>>> relevance will come to me soon. >>>>> >>>>> michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Kirby McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> Date: January 22, 2006 11:29:02 AM CST >>>>> To: Shelly Whitworth-King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [MOPO] BONHAM'S DISASTER not a disaster >>>>> for MovieArt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I bought ten posters from Bonham's and all of them >>>>> were quite good. So >>>>> I have no complaints. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kirby McDaniel >>>>> www.movieart.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 22, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Shelly Whitworth-King >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sorry to hear about your disappointment, Michael. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pretty shoddy of Bonhams to get the information on >>>>> the colour/fading wrong >>>>> AND the fact it was paperbacked not linen. I prefer >>>>> paperbacking on some of >>>>> the smaller sized pieces myself, but expect the >>>>> auction houses to get their >>>>> facts right. One would think that for framed >>>>> pieces, they would be removed >>>>> from their frames as a matter of course and checked >>>>> to make sure the >>>>> condition matched the description. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Shelly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----Original Message Follows---- >>>>> From: Michael B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: [MOPO] BONHAM'S DISASTER >>>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:11:47 EST >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it took about 28 days for me to get my full credit >>>>> from Bonham's on the >>>>> poster i purchased/won last month. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> i won STRANGER'S ON A TRAIN insert. it was >>>>> described in A- Condition, >>>>> whatever that means. for those who know the poster, >>>>> it is a beautiful >>>>> orange >>>>> color. when i opened the package, it was >>>>> YELLOW!!!!! i called BONHAM'S >>>>> immediately, and they agreed to take the poster >>>>> back, and pay postage both >>>>> ways >>>>> (especially because of the defect/issue described >>>>> below). it was back on >>>>> the >>>>> FEDEX truck within one hour and fifteen minutes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> for a moment, i thought that, perhaps, (maybe) the >>>>> studio, also, issued the >>>>> same art in a YELLOW poster because the color was so >>>>> uniform. i called >>>>> bruce >>>>> h immediately because i knew he had this poster at >>>>> his auction, and >>>>> asked............hey, what color is STRANGERS ??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> i was warned in advance on this website that the >>>>> last auction at bonhams >>>>> had >>>>> tons of faded stuff. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, the poster was described as linen backed. it >>>>> was not---it was on >>>>> paper, and rolled, causing damage and chipping at >>>>> the fold lines. I >>>>> learned >>>>> after the fact that many posters were photographed >>>>> framed, so the photo and >>>>> the >>>>> description insufficient. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> SO,,,,,,,,,,,,, STRANGERS ON A TRAIN insert >>>>> is still on my Want >>>>> List. >>>>> anyone have it? how about inserts for ALL ABOUT >>>>> EVE or THE PARADINE >>>>> CASE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> CHECK OUT a few quality Sinatra pieces, a >>>>> Marilyn, a Paradine >>>>> Case, >>>>> and some other pieces i Have listed on ebay now. >>>>> LINK: _http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwitnessfor_ >>>>> (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwitnessfor) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at >>>>> www.filmfan.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo >>>>> Mailing List >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Send a message addressed to: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> In the BODY of your message type: >>>>> SIGNOFF MOPO-L >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The author of this message is solely responsible >>>>> for its content. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop >>>>> search! >>>>> http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at >>>>> www.filmfan.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo >>>>> Mailing List >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Send a message addressed to: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF >>>>> MOPO-L >>>>> >>>>> >>>> === message truncated === >>>> >>>> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com >>>> >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List >>>> >>>> Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L >>>> >>>> The author of this message is solely responsible for its >>>> content. >>> >>> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com >>> >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List >>> >>> Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L >>> >>> The author of this message is solely responsible for its >>> content. >> >> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List >> >> Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L >> >> The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List > > Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L > > The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
