Hi Tom, The worst thing about all of this is that not even trained eyes can easily spot reproductions. Even Bruce was fooled. I have handled thousands of sets and I also have difficulty spotting the fakes. However, when I am in doubt I don't sell the set or poster. Most fakes I know were not produced from the original prints but are copies made of the originals. These fakes are often easy to spot even without holding the originals next to them. The copies are always darker, they have loss of detail (especially) in the darker areas, the colors shift a few tints, the images are less sharp/crisp, the text is also less sharp, especially the fine text is usually unreadable. And sometimes they are printed on the wrong paper. They either use cheap thin (photo) paper or the classic thicker lobby card paper. In the case of the thicker classic paper you sometimes only notice the difference if the original set was not printed on this type of paper. I also noticed, but don't know if this always applies, that the fakes are smoother on the back and that the pattern of the paper is different. The most worrying trend is that it seems like they are now creating reproductions from the original prints. I know one major website that actually sells reprints of lobby cards. One extra problem I encountered was that the color of the cards does not always give away if it's a fake or how old it is. this depends on how and where it was stored and handled. Of some titles I have over fifty sets and most of them are (dis)colored differently. Take for example the Fog by John Carpenter, this set has lot of red but the red color varies from light to dark on most of the sets and even within a set. And what if lobby cards were printed in different runs after which they replace the ink or paper, what kind of impact does that have on the sets of the individual runs? I'm currently working hard on acquiring more info and putting it al together. I'm comparing fakes and originals to give you all more info on how to spot the fakes. I'm working on Casino, Matrix, LA confidential, Pulp Fiction, Army of Darkness, Aliens, Goodfellas and other titles. I'll post my findings here and on our website including images when I'm ready. Any extra help is appreciated. Thanks, Ron
MotionPictureArt.com Movie Posters, Lobby Cards and more... http://www.MotionPictureArt.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom A. Pennock To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [MOPO] announcing a very bad sequel: THE RETURN OF THE "MINTY WHITE" LOBB... Now I am concerned about my "Cuckoo's Nest" set I bought a couple of year's ago that is MINT. Is there any way to decifer them like Ron asked? I also can't remember who I bought them from. I think I paid $100.00 or $125.00 for them. Best, Tom Pennock In a message dated 8/9/2008 3:04:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Bruce and all others on the list, I knew that some older and more desirable lobby cards were reprinted, but I was not aware that they also reproduce more recent titles. I don't understand the "oh, well" attitude about it, because most people I know and do business with do collect lobby cards from these years, including myself. Are there any other signs of these cards being fakes, like unsharp details and text? These are usually a dead giveaway. Or are they printed on other paper stock? I get about 90% from my lobby card sets from the distribution center that ships them to the theaters and about 9% from the theaters. The last 1% I buy from other sources. Because I buy from my contact at the distribution center, most of my sets are mint, like new, and usually shrink wrapped. This does not make them fakes when I sell them to my customers. Also, we are talking about "Minty White", but some of the sets on your list do not have a white border, are those "Minty Black" or any other color for that matter ;-) I do believe I have 2 sets that could be reprints, but I'm not sure because I bought them from reputable dealers that are known to a lot of you guys on this list. One set is the Army of Darkness set as mentioned by Bruce and the other is from the Traci Lords movie Not of This Earth. The problem with the Traci Lords set is that it was printed by a smaller unknown company and therefore could look and feel different than those sets printed for big blockbuster titles. I have seen this before. The Army of Darkness set is dented along the edges and looks/feels real, but every time I look at it I get a strange feeling that I can not put my finger on. I hope to get more info on this, because most of the sets we sell are "Minty White" but 100% ORIGINAL! Ron Zwarts MotionPictureArt.com Movie Posters, Lobby Cards and more... http://www.MotionPictureArt.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Hershenson To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 2:41 AM Subject: [MOPO] announcing a very bad sequel: THE RETURN OF THE "MINTY WHITE" LOBBY CARDS! announcing a very bad sequel: THE RETURN OF THE "MINTY WHITE" LOBBY CARDS! It seems that just about every grade B horror movie gets a sequel (if it is at all financially success, even if it has little artistic merit), and in the same way, apparently the "minty white lobby card sets" I reported on in Club Message #374 have been financially successful for their "creators", for there are now many "sequel" sets of "minty white lobby cards" that I have recently been consigned (and just as with bad horror movies, these may be financially profitable for those who created them, but they are completely without any merit! What ARE "minty white lobby card sets"? Here's how I described them in Club Message #374: "First of all, if you are one of the very few who knows nothing of the minty white inserts (or want to refresh your memory) know that we have discussed them in depth in this club more than once! To read the most complete re-cap of them, go to our club message #356 in our e-mail club archive on our website at http://www.emovieposter.com/club/returnmessage.php?id=377 I have long campaigned against these counterfeit posters, and have seen their prices drop drastically over the years I have spoken out against them, so I feel my efforts (and those of the others who have also spoken out against them) have paid off, but every day someone is selling one of more of these as originals, and I won't rest until EVERY collector is aware of them! But now I have learned first hand that the same people responsible for distributing the "minty white" inserts have now created "minty white" lobby cards! How did I learn of this? It started several months ago when I received a single "Godfather II" lobby card in consignment from a long time poster dealer (as part of a large consignment of older cards). I did not look closely at the card, and included it in an auction of single lobby cards. After the auction, it was paid for and sent. A couple of weeks later I received an e-mail about the card. The buyer said he felt certain it was counterfeit, and wanted to return it. I of course immediately agreed, and, as is always my policy when I have made a mistake, agreed to refund the cost of the card, the shipping both ways, plus two of my books of his choice as an apology. At that time I thought he might have been mistaken about the card, and I was so busy when the card came back that I did not inspect it closely, but simply proceeded with the refund, intending to inspect it later. Then a potential consignor called me. He said he had just purchased a large number of lobby card sets from top titles of the late 1960s and 1970s, and was I interested in selling them? I asked him what condition they were in, and he said "so incredible you will find it hard to believe" and that set off bells in my head, and I asked him if he thought there was the slightest chance they were fake. He replied, "I don't know, but they look great, so why does it matter?" to which I politely told him I did NOT want them. Next, I received another single "Godfather II" lobby card in consignment, this time from a long time collector. I glanced at the card, but it was sent by someone I thought to be very knowledgeable, so I did not look very hard. I included it in an auction of single lobby cards, and it was won by the same person who had won the first one. A few weeks later he returned that one as well! This time I looked at it very closely as soon as it returned, and I concluded he was right. What was wrong with the card? In some ways it was TOO perfect. It did not have the slightest sign of age, and there was not the slightest writing or stamping anywhere on the back. The color of the paper stock was a SLIGHTLY different shade of white (kind of "whiter" than all 1970s lobby cards). The differences are subtle enough that many collectors might not realize the card is not simply "mint", although I think most collectors could quickly tell them apart if they saw a known original side-by-side with one of these counterfeits. At that point, I was certain there were counterfeit "Godfather II" lobby cards, but I didn't really know what other titles were involved, and I did not feel I yet had enough solid evidence to "go public" with what I had thus far learned. BUT THEN, LAST THURSDAY, THAT CHANGED CONSIDERABLY! A consignor sent me a group of lobby card sets, and at first glance all looked to be "mint sets" (many were in plastic bags, with price stickers attached). But on close inspection, I realized I was seeing the new "minty white" lobby cards first hand! Why? The titles came from a thirty year period, and yet every single card was printed on the exact same paper stock (exactly the same as the two Godfather II cards I had previously been consigned! I quickly contacted the consignor, and he told me he had received these "mint sets" in trade for lesser posters, and that he had kind of suspected the deal was too good to be true", but sent them to me hoping I would feel otherwise. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THOSE WHO SOLD THE FIRST MINTY WHITE INSERTS DID WHEN THEY FIRST SURFACED WITH THEM (they went around and traded lots of them to dealers with large inventories of lesser titles). Remember the dealer I told you about above who had earlier tried to consign a bunch of these to me, but I turned him down? He also was someone with lots of posters from lesser titles, just the sort of person the creators of these cards would have contacted at first. I am 100% certain these are recently created reproductions. Here is a list of the titles that were sent to me (all were sets of 8 unless noted otherwise): Aliens Army of Darkness Blade Runner Blue Velvet Blues Brothers Caddyshack Casino Empire Strikes Back For Your Eyes Only Godfather II Goodfellas Hard Days Night (1982 re-release) Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Matrix Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl (Set of 14) Reservoir Dogs Rocky Horror Picture Show Silence of the Lambs Spiderman 2 (Set of 10) Taxi Driver Tombstone Who Framed Roger Rabbit World Is Not Enough If any of you have purchased lobby cards (sets or singles) from any of these titles in the past few months, I strongly urge you to look at them extremely closely, and if you think they are fakes, contact whomever sold them to you (even if it was me!) and ask for a refund and tell them why. If you have the slightest doubt, feel free to send them to me for evaluation, but I would say that if you got a mint set, and at a price that seemed low at the time, you were likely sold the fakes. I MOST WANT TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY KNOW OF OTHER TITLES THAT MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN REPRODUCED. I will create a special warning page on my site, listing ones I have seen with my own eyes, and also listing "suspected" titles. I need EVERYONE'S help to make these lists as comprehensive as possible." THE ABOVE IS WHAT I WROTE IN CLUB MESSAGE #374. I had HOPED that spreading the word of these bogus lobby cards (though this club and various forums I posted the above to) would make it difficult for the creators of these cards to sell them, and that they would hopefully quit selling them. But obviously I was wrong, because now two other consignors have sent me two big NEW batches of these "minty white lobby card sets", and there are a LOT of titles that were not included in the above list, meaning it is very likely that the "success" of the first group of "minty white lobby card sets" has caused the creators to launch a second batch! HERE IS A NEW LIST, WHICH INCLUDES ALL THE NEW TITLES I WAS SENT, AND ALSO THE ONES I WAS SENT THE FIRST TIME (some I was sent a second time, and some I was not, and all are sets of 8, unless otherwise noted): ALIEN ('79) ALIENS ANNIE HALL BLADE RUNNER BLAZING SADDLES BLUE VELVET BLUES BROTHERS CADDYSHACK CASINO DEER HUNTER DIRTY DOZEN EMPIRE STRIKES BACK ENFORCER ('77) FISTFUL OF DOLLARS FOG ('80) FOOTLOOSE FOR YOUR EYES ONLY FRENZY ('72) GHOSTBUSTERS GODFATHER II GOODFELLAS HARD DAYS NIGHT (1982 RE-RELEASE) INDIANA JONES & THE TEMPLE OF DOOM KING KONG ('76) LIFE OF BRIAN MAD MAX MANHATTAN ('79) MATRIX MEAN STREETS MEATBALLS MIDWAY MOMMIE DEAREST MY BLOODY VALENTINE NATIONAL LAMPOON'S VACATION NEW YORK NEW YORK ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST OUTLAND PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL (Set of 14) RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK RED DAWN RESERVOIR DOGS RETURN OF THE JEDI ROBOCOP 2 ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW SILENCE OF THE LAMBS SPIDERMAN 2 (SET OF 10) STAR WARS STRIPES TAXI DRIVER TERMINATOR TERMINATOR 2 THING ('82) TOMBSTONE WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH If any of you have purchased lobby cards (sets or singles) from any of these titles in the past few months, I strongly urge you to look at them extremely closely, and if you think they are fakes, contact whomever sold them to you (even if it was me!) and ask for a refund and tell them why. If you have the slightest doubt, feel free to send them to me for evaluation, but I would say that if you got a mint set, and at a price that seemed low at the time, you were likely sold the fakes. WHAT CAN WE THE HOBBY DO ABOUT THIS? I don't know. The last time, I tried to get lots of people interesting in pursuing ANY course of action, but an awful lot of people had a pretty "oh, well" attitude about it, because they don't collect lobby cards from these years. It IS true that it would be MUCH MUCH harder to counterfeit lobby cards or posters from the mid 1960s or earlier, because of the different paper stock and printing methods used then, but it still greatly saddens me that there are lots of people getting ripped off by these fakes nearly every single day, and I wish there was some way to stop these people! At least I hope that everyone makes sure to double and triple check all of the above titles before they buy any of them, and that they try to only deal with the most reputable dealers and auctions, and that, if they discover they bought any of these, to do all you can to get your money back! AND PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THESE JUST AS MUCH AS YOU CAN! IF ANY OF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THIS, OR KNOW OF SOMETHING WE CAN DO, PLEASE E-MAIL ME. Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. 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